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Old Aug 10, 2008, 12:38 PM   #11
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I find the 'switched off' energy use of my various cameras and other devices with Li-ion batteries to vary widely. I find the problem trivial with most of them compared with the acute problem with standard Ni-MH cells.

But at the two extremes I have....

Little discharge: my Casio EX-Z750 pocket camera that lives in my vehicle and is used only every few months, with only a tiny battery drain noticeable, and very infrequent charging;

Lots of discharge: My Samsung D371W digital camcorder, which loses 20% of its battery energy in a couple of days, and the manual warns that the battery will run down if left on the camera. However, I leave one battery on and try to remember to recharge it once a week or so, becausethe camera otherwise forgets all the settingsyou made (except the clock), because it has no backup. I keep a spare fully charged battery which holds its charge excellently. Settings are retained if mains power is plugged in while changing, but a battery change in the field means fiddling around resetting things afterwards. This is a pain, but the camera was very cheap, and produces good enough results.


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Old Aug 10, 2008, 5:41 PM   #12
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Thanks for posting Alan. This is the first device I've owned using Li-on batteries. My Nikon D300 DSLR. All my other devices used AA's or 9-volts. Or C or D size batteries. I just thought that Li-on batteries would hold their charges A LOT better. But again this batter is just on it's first charge. As some one posted even Li-on batteries need to go through a few cycles before they can hold a full charge. Which would explain why it's now at 1/3 power even though I've only taken less than 75 shots. And that my camera had been sitting unused for months.

Will be in a better position to comment after 3-4 cycles.
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 10:06 PM   #13
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Lithium ion holds their charge for a very long time, but the little lost is permanent, irrecoverable loss.

It's not good to store them for a long time fully charged. If you plan on storing for many months, store them about half full.


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Old Aug 12, 2008, 10:39 PM   #14
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itsme000 wrote:
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Lithium ion holds their charge for a very long time, but the little lost is permanent, irrecoverable loss.

It's not good to store them for a long time fully charged.¬* If you plan on storing for many months, store them about half full.¬*

Why is it not good to store them for long periods fully charged and better at half? This is basically what I did. Fully charged them (or as much as was charged for a first charge...as one poster said they need to go through several cycles before they can hold a full charge. Took maybe 30 odd shots. Then left it for maybe 4 months. then took another 30 or so. Was busy.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 4:25 AM   #15
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DarkDTSHD wrote:
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...Why is it not good to store them for long periods fully charged and better at half? ...
Well, it's in the nature of electrochemistry that reactions go slower at lower concentrations, lower temperatures, and lower voltages. The same applies to diffusion through membranes.

Most authorities say it's best to do it that way, and that low temperature is good for long-term storage, so it's probably true.

I put links to two very good Li-ion references (Wikipaedia andBattery University) near the end of a recent thread here at...

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=51.

Good luck with your batteries!

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Old Aug 13, 2008, 11:20 AM   #16
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Alan T wrote:
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DarkDTSHD wrote:
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...Why is it not good to store them for long periods fully charged and better at half? ...
Well, it's in the nature of electrochemistry that reactions go slower at lower concentrations, lower temperatures, and lower voltages. The same applies to diffusion through membranes.

Most authorities say it's best to do it that way, and that low temperature is good for long-term storage, so it's probably true.

I put links to two very good Li-ion references (Wikipaedia and¬*Battery University) near the end of a recent thread here at...

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...24&forum_id=51¬*.

Good luck with your batteries!
Thanks for the information Alan.

As I said. The room I've been storing my camera in since I came to LA can get very toasty. So that might have added to why the reading read 1/3 power. Now I keep it in another room where it's much cooler during the day. Battery level seems to still be at the 1/3 mark. Though I suppose it can't read any lower than "than 1/3 power (only in thirds on my D300). That and I believe when I came to LA it was still at full power. So it might have been baking in 40C room temperature. The outside temperature has averaged 30C.

Also, I read that even if the camera is powered off it is still drawing power from the battery. Don't know if the D300 draws more power than some other DSLR's while powered down. If some other D300 owners could comment on their experiences during the first few charges...

Again, as I said, I can better comment on what happened on how my EN-EL3e battery is holding it's charge after a few cycles. Will definitely check out those links you had posted.

I could also buy a second battery to do a comparison. See if I don't have a faulty battery. That and it is good to have more than one at all times. It's not like we (Li-on owners) can pop into a shop, buy a new one and use it immediately as we can with some varieties of AA batteries.

And lastly, what do you guys think about these two third-party EN-EL3e batteries? Have any of you tried them? Have you used a third-party brand that has done markedly better than the Nikon verison?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...attery&x=0&y=0
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Old Aug 14, 2008, 6:55 PM   #17
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My Sony PMW-EX1 will discharge it's large LiIon battery in less than a week while in the OFF position. The small battery in less than 72 hours.

So discharge rates are all over the map. My basic rule is to never leave any battery installed if I will not be using the device longer than one week.

In the case of the EX1, the battery comes off when I turn off the camera.

Batteries, if left to fully discharge in camera (or other device), could be permanently damaged.
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Old Aug 14, 2008, 9:16 PM   #18
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amazingthailand wrote:
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My Sony PMW-EX1 will discharge it's large LiIon battery in less than a week while in the OFF position. The small battery in less than 72 hours.

So discharge rates are all over the map. My basic rule is to never leave any battery installed if I will not be using the device longer than one week.

In the case of the EX1, the battery comes off when I turn off the camera.

Batteries, if left to fully discharge in camera (or other device), could be permanently damaged.
I have thought of removing the battery from my D300 when not in use. But as it is I think I will put it through a few cycles and see what happens. As I've been saying. And soon pickup a second to do a comparison. Could I have a bad battery? Or is it simply "too new"? Remans to be seen. I doubt D300's will typically not hold it's charge over a few months even if not in use. Camera powered off.
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Old Oct 1, 2008, 7:25 PM   #19
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There are a few "rules" regarding Li-ion batteries:

1. If storing for a while, leave them about half charged.

2. Unlike NiMH batteries which work best when fully run down and then fully recharged, Li-ion batteries work best(have longest life) when frequently topped up if being used regularly.

3. It's best not to fully run Li-ion batteries down. (see above) When they are "fully run down", they actually have some charge left in the cells, but the smart electronics doesn't allow them to run right down to zero.If you fully run them down, then leave them for months so they then continue to self discharge, you could damage them. (greatly decrease their life)

4. I've notseen any conclusive studies on this, but I have noticed that Li-ion batteries will not show maximum life when new, until you've run them down to about half, then charged them, maybe 2-3 times.
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Old Oct 2, 2008, 5:31 AM   #20
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It's perhaps worth adding that one shouldn't expect too long an overall lifetime from Li-ion batteries. They deteriorate with storage whether you use them or not, though the rate is lower at lower temperatures. Just a few years' life can be expected. Improvements in separator technology may improve this.

Devices sold with built-in Li-ion batteries that are not easily replaced are therefore a bit of a confidence trick, consistent with a 'throwaway culture'.

By contrast Ni-MH cells, used correctly, will last for many years.
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