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Old May 2, 2009, 2:34 AM   #1
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hello alan t, i guess by now your pretty much bored by the whole question and answer thing about klic-8000, but can i just ask you this,

back then i bought a kodak klic-8000 replacement battery from best batt

when i got it, it was working properly, during my intial charge i was able to take 500+ pictures, the way i took these pictures was like shot 50+, turned the camera off took another 100+, turned the camera off and so on, it took me 3 days and 500+ pictures before the battery got depleted and needed a second charge, now the thing i noticed was after a couple of charges maybe 20 cycles i noticed the battery didnt hold that much of charge.

after the intial charge i did 4 deep cycles, meaning charged and discharge until my camera couldnt no longer turn on!

i heared that lithium ion batteries didnt require full dichagre to charge and you can charge it any time without any memory effect, i no longer did a deep cycle!

butafter a couple of charge cycles i noticed my battery didnt last long it would take only a couple of pictures only 80 and my camera would turn off! and after that only 40!

i did try deep cycling the battery so the circuit in it would reset so it would properly read the battery, but to noavail! the battery would turn off after 40 shots!

so after a few months i decieded to get an original kodak klic--8000 battery my only question is, what is the right way of charging and discharging it to really maximise the batteries full potential?
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Old May 2, 2009, 2:48 AM   #2
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could it be that the battery i bought from best batt didnt have high quality cells on it! which is one of the reasons it didnt last that long!

it may seem that way since i do believe that best batt.com get their batteries from china, and i do believe alot of low quality lithium ion cells comes out of china!



right now my origianl kodak klic-8000 is at its second cycle, it still feels pretty strong i am still averaging at around 500+ pictures with i guess 100+ with flash, and heavy usage on the zoom function!

one thing i noticed with the original kodak klic-8000 battery is that their cells comes from japan, and it says on the side manufactured in japan, and i would assume that kodak has strict quality standards as opposed to some battery made in china!

i am just wondering what would be the best way to handle the battery.

should i charge it even though its not fully drained yet ot should i wait until the low battery sign shows up, before i charge!

one thing i learned from china products is unless, it is subcontracted by some big company which has a name protect, they will try to cut cost in the manufacturing process which leaves us with substandard product!
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Old May 4, 2009, 1:15 PM   #3
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None of the manufacturers of any of the Li-ion batteries I own, in several cameras, phones, and other gadgets, has expressed any preference for charging frequently after each use, or less often and nearto battery cutoff point. I therefore presume it doesn't matter much, provided you use an appropriate (usually dedicated) charger, so that the charging software and protection and that built in to the battery can interact properly.

HoweverI'd expect running it low and then leaving it for very long wouldn't be a good idea, in case it became very low in charge during lack of use. I returned to my Li-ion powered, seldom-used pocket camera yesterday, after very little use in the last year, and found it still turned on and worked, but it showed 'battery low'. My camcorder uses its battery power quite rapidly when not in use, presumably because it's wasteful in its clock and settings maintenance.

If you top up the battery after every serious use, obviously it lessens the danger of allowing the camera to flatten a partly-discharged battery completely while not in use.

If there are any proper battery experts lurking here, it would be nice to hear their opinions. Otherwise we have only Wikipedia and the wonderful http://www.batteryuniversity.com , and Isidor Buchmann's other publications to go on.

Remember that Li-ion batteries have a limited lifetime compared to other types, whether you use them or not. For longevity, it's best to store them half-charged, in a refrigerator, according to Prof.Buchmann and others.

Last edited by Alan T; Jun 23, 2009 at 4:35 AM. Reason: Removed web link accidentally applied to one word
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Old May 8, 2009, 4:16 PM   #4
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All rechargeable batteries have a finite life rated in number of full charge/discharges cycle. Typical full charge/discharge life ratings for several types of rechargeables include 150 for lead-gels, 300 for ni-cad, 500 for NiMH and 800 for LiIon. These average life ratings were based on typical discharge patterns associated with portable computing equipment and probably vary for other discharge patterns.

I have done some study of available battery life engineering papers (particularly Sony and Panasonic who are both battery manufacturers and manufacturers of equipment that uses rechargeable batteries) and I find little/no support for deep cycle discharge/recharge as a method of extending battery life EVEN WHEN IT IS RECOMMENDED IN THE OWNERS MANUALS of the battery powered equipment they sell to consumers.

One of the failure mechanisms of NiCad/NiMH/LiIon cells appears to be the degradation of the internal polymer separaters over time which is accelerated by heat. Heat is generated by both charging and discharging the cells. Intentional full discharge/recharge seems to me to be simply heating the cells without accomplishing useful work. Fully charging then discharging without allowing a cool down period would also not seem to be a good strategy to me.

I have two Kodak KLIC-8000s for my Z612 that were put in service DEC 2006 and still seem to be delivering 300+ shots per charge (w/o flash). My typical pattern is to put a fully charged battery in the camera and charge the one I removed. I use the in-camera battery until it is low (not necessarily until the low batt warning) and the swap in the other battery. When I shoot the annual airshow I charge both up ahead of time regardless of their charge state.

A. C.
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Old May 11, 2009, 10:11 PM   #5
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CalCellular has the Klic-8000 batteries on sale right now. You might want to check it out.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Jun 22, 2009, 2:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarqfx View Post
what is the right way of charging and discharging it to really maximise the batteries full potential?
You might want to check out:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm

This provides a table with pointers on the charging and discharging of the various types of batteries.
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Old Jun 23, 2009, 3:11 PM   #7
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I think I set something of a record with 2 KLIC-8000 batteries in a Z612 Sunday at the QC Airshow. I charged both batteries the night before and carried my CR-V3s as well. I had to change the first battery out when the shots remaining counter suggested that about 180 shots. I was a bit worried that I'd have to get into my CR-V3 as there was quite a bit of the show left. I was however able to finish the show on my 2nd KLIC-8000 (the shots remaining indicated I had taken around another 180) although the battery indicator was showing and the battery had enough left in it that my wife was able to take five flash photos without a problem. I was very surprised when I downloaded the card to my computer and found I had taken 840 photos plus a 1 min. video. I think the reason the shots remaining counter was so far off was that, although I was using fine compression, the skys were overcast most of the day which resulting in smaller than normal files. None the less 841 photos on a pair of KLIC-8000s must be some kind of record.

These KLIC-8000s were put in service DEC 2006 which suggests that there is some merit to my contention that one shouldn't fret over maintainance/storage issues on rechargeable LiIon batteries.

A. C.
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Old Jun 24, 2009, 9:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac.smith View Post
...841 photos on a pair of KLIC-8000s must be some kind of record...
Wow! Most definitely. With skills like this, it looks like you'll be the last person left on the planet still driving your electric automobile, when the rest of us are crawling in the blazing sun.
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Old Jun 24, 2009, 11:15 AM   #9
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I'm not sure if skill had much to do with the results. The factors which may have had an influence are 1) at that shooting rate the camera wasn't on and idle as much as it would have been at a lower shooting rate and 2) changed the focusing mode to "Distant" (the mountain icon). The "Distant" setting on Kodaks causes the AF to prefer the more distant target over a nearer target. I chose this mode when shooting airborne aircraft to speed focusing under the low contrast conditions that existed for the first 2/3ds of the show and since it seemed to be working I continued even after the sun came out. This seemed to reduce focus "hunting" which reduces the battery energy required for the focusing function. Based on audible clues it seemed that the lens moved less focusing when I brought the camera up to my eye than when the focusing is in the normal automatic mode. I can only speculate that this was a part of the amazing number of photos I was able to take on a battery charge.

A. C.

Last edited by ac.smith; Jun 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM.
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Old Jun 24, 2009, 5:51 PM   #10
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I hope we get to see some of the results. please, A. C.
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