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Old May 28, 2006, 11:10 PM   #21
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Possible another try with Energizers NiHM's likely soon.

Ok, considering

a) The number of people surf this forum and CPF.
b) The many who claim Energizers are great.
c) The common availability of the Energizers.
d) Being cited for possible problems in how I used the set.

I've may give them another shot and buy another set of 4 soon. This time I'll use them alone on my Canon A95 while using the 2[sup]nd[/sup] set (the 2 ½ year old Panasonic 2300's used in the camera) only until the Energizers are charged. This way they'll not sit unused for long as SilverFox cited as a possible problem.

I'll take more shots than usual.

I'll charge them only in the BC-900 - at a 700mAh rate - which I started using in April 2006 (the other 3 sets were charged with the Panasonic BQ-390 Quick Charger which charges all the batteries together at an rated output of 550mA X 4 taking about 4 ½ hours to charge when they batteries were used until the A95 shut down)

I'll first run TEST on the BC-900 and log the results. Then I'll immediately run REFRESH/DISCHARGE and ensure they run a minimum of 3 cycles before I begin to use them.

Needless to say it'll take awhile to get some results on the new Energizers I'm likely to buy soon.



In any case I must point out that the Panasonic 2300 NiMH's were put under virtually the same conditions as the Energizers but yet provide good service – at least I've not notice any severe decline anything like the Energizers but will report more on them later as I run some other benchmarking tests on them with the BC-900 charger. Point is, although I'm not running the batteries under "laboratory" conditions I'm still happily using the Panasonics whereas the Energizers didn't last and last and last.

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Old May 29, 2006, 9:51 AM   #22
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someone made this comment at CPF on this subject;


Quote:
The Energizer 2500's are Sanyos (they will have an HR on them) From what I have read, Sanyo made some really crappy 2500's and they self discharged quickly.
I just checked mine and their "HR"
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 4:12 PM   #23
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SilverFoxCPF wrote:
Quote:
Hello Stuart,

I suggest you contact Energizer, explain what is going on and get some replacement cells.

Tom
That would be a nice thing to do, except that in the UK, getting hold of Energizer is practically impossible...other plans are needed :G

I have certainly confirmed my findings. After 1 week of self discharge (at +/- 20 degrees C), the charged batteries are completely drained. The terminal voltage for 4 cells is 4.287V. The open circuit terminal voltage decreases at the same rateas if I were consuming serious current from them. As soon as I try and draw any current however, they are completely depleted.

As a comparison, my MAHA batteries are still sitting at 5.283V.

Just to those interested, I did measure each cell individually and only put them in the test rig for about 10 seconds each time once per day to make a measurement.

Also looked at these batteries andon thenegative electrode,"HR" stamped...although so did my oldSonys, my MAHAs and some really old Energizers, the only ones that didn't have -HR- stamped was my Uniross ones.


Conclusion: Self discharge of these Energizers is in the order of 25% per day...totally useless. Could be a bad batch, but once bitten twice shy. Hopefully my newSanyo 2700mAh are better...then waiting to Eneloop.

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Old Jun 3, 2006, 2:14 PM   #24
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Well...the first cycle of my new Sanyo 2700 mAh's is pretty impressive indeed. I charged them in my MAHA MH-C401FS on the slow setting and left them trickle charging overnight.

The results speak for themselves:

Sanyo (2700mAh) = 2448.23mAh and 11.29W/h @ constant current of 1A drained to 1V per cell.

MAHA (2500mAh) = 2272.60mAh and 10.54W/h @ constant current of 1A drained to 1V per cell.

Now I am testing the self discharge, so in 2 weeks I will have a fairly decent figure relating to what the self discharge looks like.



yawglenn, are you seriously going to buy more Energizers? I'd steer well clear of them, especially the ones made in Japan...although as you say a lot of people rate them highly, but have these same people ever tried what you and I both have done? Leaving the batteries to self discharge for a week or so? I bet most have not, it took a VERY long time for me to realise that my problem was self discharge, because at first they seemed so great right out of the charger, literally hundreds of shots. Most people refuse to admit that their batteries/cameras/cars/wives/whatevers are potentially faulty.

Until I discovered this problem,sometimes I would doubt myself and think "Did I actually charge these?" or "maybe the camera is discharging them when idle". In fact I actually bought the Canon A95 because i thought my old Olympus C-40Z was eating batteries, it wasn't, it was the batterieseating themselves.

Maybe/probably it was a bad batch from Energizer, but I don't like wasting money and time on testing their battery technologyfor them.
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Old Jun 9, 2006, 4:27 PM   #25
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I was just doing a google search on Energizer self discharge issue and found this discussion. Wow, so I'm not the only one that has this problem! My test methods are not as organized and most of my observations have been through routine rather than experimentation.

I have 4x Panasonic 2300mAh nimh, 8x Maha PowerEx 2400mAh nimh, 24x Energizer 2500mAh nimh, and 16x Maha PowerEx 2500mAh nimh. They were all purchased within two years in the order written. All were purchased from Paulsfinest.ca, but the Energizers were purchased from Thomasdistributing.com. I have a lot of nimh because I used them as a wedding photographer in three Canon 580ex flashes and the CP-E3 power pack that improves the refresh of the 580ex. I have used them all fairly equally until 6 months ago when I began to realize that the Energizers were not holding their charge between weeks when I shoot weddings. All the Maha batteries and the Panasonic held their charge and didn't have to be recharged before the next weekend, but the Energizers had to be recharged fully before I can even use the flash.

I've tried to full cycle refresh the Energizers without any improvement in self-discharge rate. I'm mainly using my PowerEx 2500mAh now and I love them. I've also bought a portable lead acid pack from Lumedyne so I don't have to depend on the nimh as much. So for the last 6 months, the Energizers have been sitting in a box on the shelf along with some of the 2400mAh Maha and 2300mAh Panasonics. Once in a while I would pull them out, recharge them for running portable electronics, but soon remembered why I hated the Energizers.

So this past week, I started doing an experiment to check the self-discharge rate of the Energizers. I used a Maha C401FS to charge all my batteries and always in slow mode. Before charging, a pack of 4 Energizers were 0.9V measured on a basic digital multimeter. After fully charging, they were all 1.41V. After one day self-discharge, 1.34V. After two days 1.30V. From the way it's going, I'm probably going to throw them out after this week and purchase another 6 packs of the new 2700mAh Maha's. Never again!
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 12:54 AM   #26
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StuartP wrote:
Quote:
Now I am testing the self discharge, so in 2 weeks I will have a fairly decent figure relating to what the self discharge looks like.



yawglenn, are you seriously going to buy more Energizers?
Funny you say that, I was just at Walmart last Friday and although I wasn't there to buy batteries I just happen to have a look what's on the rack. I thought about going ahead and picking up a set of Energizer NiMH 2500's but held off. I was tempted to buy the Duracells instead being cheaper and at the same rated capacity or even the Pure Energy ones because the set of AAA NiMH's I bought back a few months tested very well – I'll report on them soon.

In any case I'm still testing some Energizers sets I have that have been used in some low drain devices for about 2 years (2100's in a radio and a toothbrush). When I'm finished I'll decide then if I'll risk another set of Energizer NiMH's. So far the Energizer 2100's in the low drain devices have served me well and I'm now waiting on the test results using the BC-900.


Waiting on your self-discharge results.

jonching, it all sounds familiar.


yawglenn


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Old Jun 13, 2006, 3:28 PM   #27
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yawglenn,

My results are already in for the Energizers...Both sets are suffering from severe self-discharge. After 1 week of self-discharge they are completely flat.

However, after 2 weeks, the MAHA/Powerex 2500mAh batteries lost less than 10% of their charge, of course after the first day they drop probably in the region of about 3%, so in all I'd say that the MAHA's self-discharge at a rate of about 0.5% per day after the first day, which is acceptable.

I am still testing the Sanyo 2700mAh's self-discharge, they are following a similar trend as the MAHA/Powerex set.

I contacted Energizer in the UK, and they have asked me to send the faulty batteriesto France where they say they will refund the cost of the batteries and postage...will have to see if they actually follow through with this, but what have I got to lose (except postage).

On another note, I have a set of older 1850mAh Energizers, they seem fine, so I am sure that it is either an issue with the high capacity cells, bad batches or a total failure in quality.

Will post the results of the Sanyo when 2 weeks is up...
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Old Jun 14, 2006, 10:13 PM   #28
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Okay, I've not completed all the self-discharge tests I had wanted, such as 1 day, 1 week and 1 month but I can say so far that all 4 sets of 4 Energizer 2500's are bad.
Whereas all the other's (1 set 750 mAh AAA, 2300 AA & 2100 AA) are performing satisfactorily or better.
At this point I have put 3 sets of 2500's aside for non-use and will continue with the 1 set in the A95. I'm not likely to purchase Energizer 2500's any time soon.

I also say again that the Panasonic 2300's that were paired up with the Energizer's are still performing well now after 2 1/2 years of use in the Canon A95.

As you pointed out StuartP it's likely an issue with the 2500's and I'd be curious how they respond to you.

yawglenn

P.S.

if I get around to it I'll post the numbers I got on various self-discharge tests. Suffice to say I don't recommend Energizer 2500's.
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 2:30 PM   #29
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I was considering Engergizer 2500 mAh NiMH batteries. Glad I came across this thread.

I'll most likely start with Powerex 2700mAh/401 charger. But I was wondering what you guys thought of the 2500 mAh batteries from Sony. The silver/orange label. Have any of you used them? Are they good at holding their charges?

I'm currently using the supplied blue/orange label 2100 mAh Sony's that came with my Sony DSC-H1. Just picked it up last week btw...Got a good deal.
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 10:05 PM   #30
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If Sanyo makes the Sony cells, I would recommend them.Personally, I'd stick with Sanyo or Powerex 2700 mAh AA Cells. I also recommend the MH-C401FS charger.

The only negative I've heard about the 401 is that the cellsbecome quitehot when using the fast charging mode. But, it seemed to charge the cells to the highest capacity compared to the other chargers. Read this article . . .

I had a set of Sony NiMH cells that came with a Sony Digicam I bought about 2.5 years ago. I actually "Revived" those old Sony cells back in Jan. when I got my MH-C204W (they'd been sitting dormant for about 2 years). The "revival" seemed to be successful, butthey've been in the refrigiratorever since
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