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Old May 1, 2007, 1:12 PM   #11
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I worry about under exposing because to correct for it brings out noise. And noise removal software removed details (depending on how much noise there is to remove.) And under exposed images with the 1D MkII N show more noise than properly exposed ones.

But maybe you weren't being serious with that question?

I guess that is just where we differ.
I would rather have the higher shutter speed than the more depth of field & motion blur (most of the time) when there is more light (up to a point, of course.)

I'd rather not have to use the flash as an over flashed but properly exposed image is of less use to me than a lower shutter speed but properly exposed image (assuming its sharp enough.)

Yes, I'd get more sharp images with the flash, but I'll get less "useful" images. Sharpness not being the only criteria on which I rate images. But this comes down to personal standards/preferences.

I much prefer to use a flash as fill than to make up for low light.

Of course, I don't have a high-speed flash battery either - which makes that shooting style more viable... at least it would for me, I can shoot 300+ pictures on a good day. And sets of those can be in bursts which a regular rechargeable battery couldn't handle.

But hey, that is why photography is fun to discuss - there are many different desired results and therefor many different ways ways to do things.

Eric
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Old May 1, 2007, 3:52 PM   #12
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eric s

You are not underexposing an image in Tv: I usually survey a scene before the shoot for the best lighting and already pre-set the camera for the lowest but 'correct' exposure on the darkest subject/background you want to shoot. Things will only get brighter (underexposure is no longer a factor) from here which mean that the aperture can only close down from wide open with that fixed shutter speed that still allow some motion blurs... I don't worry much about the background since even @ higher aperture the longer teles still hold a very nice bokeh as the above pictures indicated.



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Yes, I'd get more sharp images with the flash, but I'll get less "useful" images. Sharpness not being the only criteria on which I rate images. But this comes down to personal standards/preferences.
It's not about sharpness, but about proper lighting (backlight) - You can never shoot a proper image under the canopy of leaves and pointing up at the bright sky without a flash (all you get is a black silhoulette instead or a blown-out sky):





-> If I am in Av instead switching to flash will guarantee a change of mode (and re-dialing the correct aperture/shutter) - By then the subject is probably gone...
In Tv all I need is to flip the flash ON or OFF, the shutter speed (and aperture) switch automatically with no mode change required.
IMO It's much easier to go back and forth with just the flip of a switch! :idea:
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Old May 1, 2007, 5:07 PM   #13
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Eric and NHL, I am staying out of this one and just read and learn on this post. By the way NHL very nice photos. Someday I will get photos like you and Eric. Good luck guys.
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Old May 1, 2007, 6:18 PM   #14
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NHL wrote:
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Mark1616 wrote:
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I do however keep an eye on the aperture being selected by the camera to ensure that I'm not going to get an under exposed result, if this looks likely I will then up the ISO setting...
Why are you worrying about underexposure?

In Tv one really picks the lowest shutter speed for the desired effect (i.e. motion blur of the subject) in the worst case (i.e. lowest light level @ a certain ISO) - If the light/background changes to anything of higher EV then you already have all the f-stops from the wide open lens to maximum stop down... at least a mimimum 6-stops to cover for over exposure in most lenses!
Lets take an example where someone is using a consumer 70-300mm f4-5.6 lens at 300mm, they've set the camera to Tv with 1/640th with the ISO at 100. For this I'm going to assume thattheyaregetting f7.1 in a clear sky. If they are then to get cloud cover there is a possibility that the light will drop enough that the camera would need f4 for arguments sake but their lens can only give f5.6 so if not keeping an eye on it then the shot will be under exposed.

Now those of us with lenses that will allow f2.8 there is always more to play with but the problem could arise if it is moving towards evening and the settings are not changed.
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Old May 2, 2007, 5:48 AM   #15
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Mark1616 wrote:
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Lets take an example where someone is using a consumer 70-300mm f4-5.6 lens at 300mm, they've set the camera to Tv with 1/640th with the ISO at 100. For this I'm going to assume thattheyaregetting f7.1 in a clear sky. If they are then to get cloud cover there is a possibility that the light will drop enough that the camera would need f4 for arguments sake but their lens can only give f5.6 so if not keeping an eye on it then the shot will be under exposed.
That's where you get me wrong...

"I usually survey a scene before the shoot for the best lighting and already pre-set the camera for the lowest but 'correct' exposure on the darkest subject/background you want to shoot."

I scan my shoot with the camera and notice where the EV scale range is and then set a low baseline where the exposure can not fall under, usually it's the black foliage or dark water. Also when shooting wildlife early sunrise is the best titme so the sky is only going to get brighter (not darker), I also watch for clouds covers but usually they clear out by late AM so I'm more worry about decreasing the ISO than increasing it...

Unlike human in motion the bird body tend to stay fix in motion, and I strive for this blurring "wing-tip" effect by slowing down the shutter speed - I do get a lot of sharper, but frozen shots by using higher shutter speeds or Av, but that's not the effect I'm after:


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Old May 2, 2007, 6:03 AM   #16
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I think both situations have slightly different needs and agree with what you are saying for birding etc but wanted to pass on other areas of difficulty that people need to be aware of if using Tv if they are less experienced.
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Old May 2, 2007, 6:18 AM   #17
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How does this sound?

TV is the option for when you want to LIMIT shutter speed. It's a poor choice for stop action photography. But in Mark's panning examples and NHL's wingtip examples they both want specifically slow shutter speeds - slower than the EV allows for. If you don't want a specifically SLOW shutter speed (remember slow is relative here) then TV is probably not a good mode to shoot in.

Does that make sense?
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Old May 2, 2007, 6:21 AM   #18
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Works for me

Also my example was not quite realistic as I've never used 1/640th for panning, not quite sure what I was thinking..... oops.
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Old May 2, 2007, 11:44 PM   #19
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How does this sounds?
o Tv if you want the control over shutter speed
o Av if you want the control over aperture

I just don't see why TV is a poor choice for action photography:




-> What about in case of bracketing?
The shutter stay fixed in Tv while the aperture (when you don't care about aperture) varies...

If you do an action sequence brackets in Av would the higher brackets of EV's (which the speed might be critical) shutters fall out of range?
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Old May 3, 2007, 3:31 AM   #20
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I think the reason that Av is generallythe preference is that most sports involve individual players so you want to isolate them from the background so Av allows a consistent aperture to be selected, if you were using Tv to set a fast shutter speed which would mean you need a wide aperture then there is a chance that with the the light dropping due to cloud or something that you then get under exposure as above.

There are sports where you want to have a specific shutter speed all of the time and aperture is less important so Tv is choice then (such as anything with a vehicle i.e. cycling, cars etc). For most people shooting here (taking the number of threads for each type) shooting people is the most popular so I would suggest they should be using Av or if possible manual.
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