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Old Aug 23, 2007, 9:08 AM   #21
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absolutely brilliant to bring in the 51 point af system to prosumer level camera. Or shud we call it anymore a prosumer level..

The D300 looks more like a direct aim on the 1D series and not the lower ends. They still feel contended with D200 to take care of the lower end cameras.

I def feel D300 has more 1D features than a prosumer camera.

51 points sensor, weather sealing, Horizon level corrector, ISO6400, CMOS sensor, FPS and almost everything else..

And i wish SONY and Pentax comes out with a body IS CMOS sensor D300 like camera. THat would be even more interesting.

And Oly, if they can build a D300 like IS enabled camera NHL dream of 100-1000 with IS would be not just a dream but reality

I seriously loved this announcement...i own a 5d and a 1D ..so i would never troll :blah:
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Old Aug 23, 2007, 9:21 AM   #22
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Yep.

About a year ago, when there was disstisfaction with the 30D's incremental improvement over 20D I posted here that if Canon created a $2000 bridge camera with 1-series focusing they'd have a huge market (much like the 5D bridges to the 1ds). Well of course canon decided against that - they've continued to keep features out of the mid-range cameras. Now I think they're going to pay a price.

But, as for other manufacturers being in the game - remember there are 2 other very critical features Canon/Nikon have that high end users want:

Pro level lenses (which means not just pro level optics, but weather sealing and pro level FOCUSING speed)

Focus tracking.

It isn't just about focus points. All sports shooters and a majority of wildlife shooters use Servo focusing. Canon and Nikon have an army of beta testers of the highest skill levels and decades of developing their focus systems. Having the same image sensor doesn't give you the same focus capability (heck it doesn't even give you the same image quality - image processor matters there too).

I haven't seen or heard of anything that tells me Pentax / Oly / Sony have anything close to the focus tracking / servo systems that Canon and Nikon have.

And then there's the lenses. 300mm & 400mm 2.8 lenses and 500mm and 600mm lenses with lightning fast autofocus, weather sealing and optical quality.

I was trying to help someone with a pentax camera improve their lens - but there's NOTHING in their lineup that fits the bill of a decent field sport lens. The excellent Sigma lenses - 100-300 and 120-300 aren't available in a pentax mount. The only thing out there seems to be older manual focus lenses. And sorry that isn't going to attract high end sports / wildlife shooters.

Of them all - Sony has the best shot with lenses, but they've got to step up their game with image processor and autofocus if they're going to compete.
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Old Aug 23, 2007, 9:42 AM   #23
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JohnG

I don't think the Sony and Pentax need to cater to the Pro - Afterall how many Pro's are out there? Plus theses folks are already locked up in Canon or Nikon systems already so they are not likely to change...

The bigger market are the enthusiasts/hobbyists who can't write up the cost of their equipments and theses folks are highly sensitive to prices and features. The people in this segment rarely buy lenses that cost 2 to 3 times the body!

-> They are after the mass market with enough features to drive the price down to affordable level
Theses folk do this for fun and they are not likely to carry a 400 f/2.8 or longer which sound more like a work out to me (I know since I've been carrying one of thoses around)

-> A good example of this is to see how Nikon stole away the low-end volume market from Canon - This is where it hurts
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Old Aug 23, 2007, 9:59 AM   #24
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NHL,

I'm not talking about catering to pros. But the truly advanced ameteurs are savy now - they realize (thanks in large part to forums) what features are important to success at 'the next level'. I wouldn't consider a sports shooter or wildlife shooter who ignores autofocus and servo focus as advanced anything. You might be surprised how many non-pros there are with 300mm 2.8 and sigma 120-300 2.8 lenses - not to mention 300mm f4 and 400mm 5.6 lenses and sigma 100-300 lenses.

I agree there aren't many non-pros getting into 400mm 2.8 and 600mm lenses. But my point was also that without those pros it's difficult to fine-tune pro-like features. In the end, to most serious hobbyists it won't matter if the smaller oly sensor gives them a larger image if the image isn't in focus or if the IQ isn't as good as what the user can get with a larger canon or nikon lens/camera (and I'm talking about final image IQ - not lens sharpness here).

All you have to do is look at how many hobbyists have lined up to buy the mkIII - thousands. It aint just working pros. Hobbyists love their toys too. In the end for the serious hobbyist I think photo quality is the winner. And right now I see a huge amount of nikon and canon hobbyists producing stellar sports and wildlife shots. I'm not seeing close to that quality coming out of the other camps - because I don't think the gear is up to the task yet. Precisely because the other camps have never catered to the wildlife and sports shooters - the market segment something like the D300 and 40d caters to.
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Old Aug 24, 2007, 5:40 AM   #25
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i am not sure why Sony coudnt use some of the best features of minolta 7D like its noise performance. I always found the 7D noise very very acceptable even at high ISO. Not Bad at all. Even Jim had posted few images with his 5D or 7D (i dont remember)

Good thing for SOny, oly and Pentax is they know what they are up against.

I wouldnt be surprised if Nikon does devolop the basic entry level dslr(d40) series with some features from the D300 sometime soon along with the D300. I mean if their aim is to sweep the market they would be more than happy to give the D40XXX some of the D300 features like may be the AF system to attract more crowd.

I would be happy to see if this competetion leads to IS enabled cameras from Canon and Nikon. And i am confident that would be in the pipeline of both the companies. I am sure they can develop a system that can use both the In camera IS and the LENS IS to great effectiveness. So its all for the GOOD
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Old Aug 24, 2007, 9:40 AM   #26
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nymphetamine wrote:
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i am not sure why Sony coudnt use some of the best features of minolta 7D like its noise performance.
You've got to remember Sony hasn't done anything... yet
-> They absorbed an existing Minolta team and cosmetically repackaged a low-end 5D into the A100 - I don't even call this is a baby step!

It looks to me like Sony has now positioned themself to strategically compete in this advanced pro-sumer market with 3 lines of lenses: Standard, G-series (Minolta's 'L' equivalent), and the premium Zeiss brand. If I remember correctly the Minolta's SSM are as fast as the USM so they have a good base to start with... Minolta's AF also are as good as anyone which Sony can improve upon, and I believe their AF system goes to f/8 across the line as they were unique in the market to offer the only autofocus compact 500mm mirror lens.

Sony's next release is key
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