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Old Sep 29, 2007, 7:00 PM   #11
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Sent you a PM Altos.
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Old Sep 29, 2007, 9:05 PM   #12
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Chako wrote:
Quote:
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I shot with a Bigma hand held and yes, sometimes indoors at mostly school sport events. The Bigma is a fairly slow lens. I have found that if I up my ISO to 800, I can get relatively fast shutter speeds that will stop indoor action. Although I do prefer a little blur on the ball
hmmm. I'd be extremely interested to see those shots. Since most gyms I shoot in are ISO 1600, f2.0. I'd love to see what ISO 800 3.5-6.3 shots look like.

But I'll tell you what. The beauty of a photography form is people can judge advice on gear based upon viewing actual photos. Since the sport in question is volleyball I think it prudent to view volleyball photos. Here are some following my advice:

Please feel free to share your ISO 800 bigma shots of volleyball.









To the OP: Sorry but as a very avid sports shooter, IMOyou're getting bad advice from Chako. But again, afterChako posts his/her Bigma volleyball shots you can judge for yourself. Until you see the proof of the advice though I caution that it's highly suspect.
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Old Sep 29, 2007, 9:10 PM   #13
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Oh, and I also know a thing or two about shooting softball:










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Old Sep 29, 2007, 9:49 PM   #14
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and those...... areEXACTLY the type of pictures I want. Very, very nice. Exceptional. Those that don't play thegame just don't understand how good those are... My daughter is a catcher, 14U, plays like it should be played on an aggressivetravel ball team. Libero on the volleyball court.

I just saw a couple of posts for the 70-300mm Canon (verses 70-200mm). Different type of lens but might... might be suitable for softball. I need to do more a lot more research. The softball seems an easier fix/solution (obviously)than the volleyball due to the lighting. While I would rather invest towards the softball-centric effort I was informed... today... that she now wants to do basketball. At 5'4". And she's serious. Read:indoor.

I need 2 gold bars in the driveway. Any assistance appreciated.
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Old Sep 29, 2007, 11:31 PM   #15
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Well here is one to prove a point.



Ourschool gym has the worst lighting possible (I reckon its even worst then your nicer facility shown in those photos). I used an F4 lens for this one with flash. My shutter speed was 1/60th of a second...ISO 100.

Like I say, I prefer a little controlled blur in my photos. I could have easily upped the ISO and gotten a faster shutter speed and no blurring, if that was my intent.

I am not arguing with you about how much better a faster lens can be. What I am disagreeing with you is that a faster lens is always the best solution. Even for sports, if you go for the sweet spot of a fast lens (which may not be wide open), then all your doing is carrying around an expensive brick. Most people simply cannot afford these big heavy lenses either. I am giving him advice based upon what he has told us of his financial capabilities. It is really easy to suggest an expensive lens. I say he can do without if he needs to. Countless other photographers do it every day lol.

I do birding with my Bigma all the time, and although it is a slow lens, it can capture fast birds in flight easily enough.

Well Altos, you are only getting different opinions and advice. Take it or leave it.
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 4:58 AM   #16
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The flash was what saved your shot; However, if you did use more power from the flash then you could have darkened the background and also get rid of the blur without increasing the shutter by lowering the aperture (higher f-number for example) - i.e. the ambient light is what caused the blur at 1/60s... and because you're also exposing for ambient light the flash overwhelm the white areas...

-> A Flash can by itself freeze the motion @ lower shutter speeds... and the 'inverse square law' will take care of the background (provided that your strobe is powerful enough to overwhelm the ambient light)
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 6:28 AM   #17
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That is correct, and I know all of this NHL.

My point still stands. Most photographers make do with cheaper gear and still get nice shots.

I am making these suggestions based upon the OPs financial statement. If money was no concern..then by all means, I could easily suggest f/1.4 and f/2.8 lenses.

Besides, NHL, I like the slight blurring. I like to have a little to show movement. I could have easily upped the ISO settings. I posted this photo to show an ISO 100 shot in less then ideal lighting. I was also some good distance away.


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Old Sep 30, 2007, 7:30 AM   #18
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When comparing the two posters it's clear that the photography (like the players) are operating in a different league.

It's a good illustration of what you can expect Altos.

Flash isn't always allowed, where it is of course it greatly increases your available options.
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 8:38 AM   #19
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it's important to realize in most cases flash is not allowed in HS volleyball (which is what the OP is shooting). Some will allow strobes.

So, if that's the case in the gyms the OP is shooting in - the advice won't work.

By the way, the 85mm 1.8 is about $360 - so it is by no means over-the-top expensive. It's a very small price to pay to get much better quality shots.

Also Chako, I noticed you did not post your bigma shots (to that point you didn't mention a thing about flash when saying the bigma and iso 800 was all that was needed). So, let's see them.

Altos, if you don't wish to spend the $360 on the 85mm I strongly suggest you check into whether or not flash is allowed when shooting volleyball. If it is - you can see from Chako's photo what quality you can get. If it is not allowed, you won't get very many shots at all.

The shot also points out another area to be wary of - the loss of detail that occurs when an image is overcropped. Low light sports especially need to be framed tightly in-camera. You only want to do very minor cropping if you want 8x10 quality shots (which is what you stated you wanted I believe). Getting quality sports photos takes the right gear and the right workflow/process by the photographer. There are always several ways to achieve good results. If you like I can send you an original size image file so you can print 8x10. I'm sure Chako will be glad enough to do the same. You can judge for yourself which approach gives you 8x10 "wow factor" shots.

It may seem like I'm being very mean here. Please don't take it that way. I'm being this critical because I know from personal experience Chako's advice is plain wrong. You want 8x10 quality results and you're not going to get that following Chako's advice. If you don't like hearing my advice, please feel free to ask any of the other regular posters in the sports forum (Mark, Trojansoc, Gredan, john, etc) - especially those who shoot volleyball. Ask them what results you get when you try to use a poor equipment solution vs the results when you use the right equipment.

Best of luck in your search. Looking forward to seeing some of your work in the sports forum once you make your decision and start shooting
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 10:53 AM   #20
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My apologies, PM was turned off, now on.
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