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Old Dec 12, 2007, 2:01 AM   #11
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The future looks great. :-)


I personally don't think the D3 and 1Ds MkIII are really in direct competition. The latter is really gunning for the medium format crowd.

I'm also pretty sure that the Canon 1DMkIII AF is now "fixed" enough that RG wouldn't have complained about it if it had been released in the current state. And let's not forget that the AF algorithms and sensors are completely new in this camera, this is the first of a new generation of technology and the 1DMkIIN was the pinnacle of the previous generation. I expect future generations to surpass the old tech.

I agree with NHL that we really are asking an awful lot from cameras these days. Still they do cost a bomb so why not have high expectations.

For me personally I am in the Ken Rockwell camp of the basic principle of having the largest possible sensor/film in the smallest possible package. So in digital that's the Canon 5D, and I have been resisting (though I'm not sure for how much longer) getting a Mamiya7II - I made the mistake of playing with one in the camera store for a while and immediately fell in love. When circumstances allow I shall no doubt get a "cheap" large format camera too.

So at this time the only game in town for me is the 5D. But Sony and Nikon will have something new to play with soon I'm sure, and of course Canon will have the 5DMkII as well.

And although it won't be here for a while, I do eventually expect the MF digital backs to come down to a price I could afford. I'll probably have to wait 10 years for that though. I would also be keen at some point to have a Leica M8.

In the mean time my 5D + 50L are giving more quality than I really need for the photography (as opposed to the equipment collecting) part of the hobby.

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Old Dec 12, 2007, 5:53 AM   #12
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peripatetic wrote:
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I'm also pretty sure that the Canon 1DMkIII AF is now "fixed" enough that RG wouldn't have complained about it if it had been released in the current state
I don't get it - Why do people believe that this was "broke" in the 1st place?
The manual clearly states:"When "Focusing (subject-tracking) priority" is selected and the subject distance changes,the continuous shooting speed may become irregular. When "Drive speed priority" is selected, the focusing might be slightly off, but the shooting speed will be fixed. Setting 2is effective for press photographers who put priority on capturing the moment."

This was always the case for any camera in the burst mode - From the Nikon manual: Release + Focus "Photos can be taken even when the camera is not in focus. In continuous mode, frame rate slows for improved focus if the subject is dark or low contrast"

The AF is one of the trade off one has to take given such a high burst rate correct? (i.e. the lens/AF needs more time but you're cutting it short)
-> Most folks don't have this issue including nymphetamine, but when someone push the limit something got to give...
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 6:22 AM   #13
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NHL wrote:
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peripatetic wrote:
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I'm also pretty sure that the Canon 1DMkIII AF is now "fixed" enough that RG wouldn't have complained about it if it had been released in the current state
I don't get it - Why do people believe that this was "broke" in the 1st place?
Because, in certain situations the camera's AF does not perform as well as the older model - just that simple. In those situations the mkIIN has a higher keeper rate han the mk III. But only in those situations (i.e. heat AND sunlight).

Still, I am also happy with my mkIII's performance. But I admit I waffle back and forth on the issue.

On the one hand there are plenty of people that seem happy with the performance and don't seem to be encountering the problem. On the other hand, I don't have years of experience shooting with 300mm 2.8 and 400mm 2.8 primes and the mkII-N. So if the mkIII isn't performing as well as the mkII-N would in those situations I won't recognize it. I also don't like the fact that Canon bumped up the price by $500 after the initial white paper because they saw the demand and if there is a fault I want them to pay through the nose to fix it (I really hate corporate greed :G).


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Old Dec 12, 2007, 8:21 AM   #14
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Yes... If the EOS-1D Mark II N were not so darn good, we probably wouldn't be having this kind of discussion.

Unfortunately for Canon, it looks like the hit rate is lower with the new model.

But, you have to keep in mind that Canon's markerting has been pretty "bold", too (marketing the EOS-1D Mark III as being an improvement. ;-)

Note the first page of Steve's review. This is right from Canon's marketing material.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2007_reviews/1dm3.html

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The EOS-1D Mark III raises the bar for auto focus performance. It uses a 45-point high density AF system that provides not only the industry's largest continuous AF coverage area, but also the greatest range of control over focusing point selection. The focusing point can be selected automatically by the camera (based on high-speed microcomputer analysis of image content), or you can manually select any of 19 cross-type AF points which can be complemented by 26 additional Assist Points for pin sharp accuracy. A processing unit devoted solely to focusing the 1D Mark III uses advanced algorithms that ensure the fastest, most accurate AF performance under the widest variety of conditions, with processing up to 3x faster and a full stop darker than on the EOS-1D Mark II N. The One-Shot AF mode is ideal for more static subjects. The camera rapidly selects the optimum focusing point and the subject is instantly brought into focus even if it is off-center. The AI Servo AF mode is excellent for moving subjects. Aided by a highly "intelligent" predictive focusing algorithm, it precisely tracks subject movement, even at speeds of up to 10 fps. Even with erratic or rapid subject movement, the photographer can shoot continuously, concentrating solely on image composition.

You'll find the same verbage used on a number of vendor web sites selling this product (using the text from material provided by Canon). For example, look at the features page for it at Ritz:

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/541160909.htm

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Old Dec 12, 2007, 8:38 AM   #15
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Still - We all know the AF time is not fixed to a lens alone, but can varies with lighting, subject contrast, and movements. It could take as long as a second sometime to lock, but now we are asking the camera to fire off 10 frames in that same second (instead of 8 - What gives)?

-> IMO people are just too demanding...
The AF is always the black sheep whenever a new camera is released, so they need something to pick on
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 8:55 AM   #16
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I don't disagree. That's asking an awful lot from a camera, and it's amazing that they can work as well as they do.

Canon just made a mistake by not making sure it was as good or better than the EOS-1D Mark II N (as far as the hit rate in conditions like RG tested them in), especially considering their bold marketing of it's AF system.

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Old Dec 12, 2007, 8:56 AM   #17
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NHL wrote:
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-> IMO people are just too demanding...
The AF is always the black sheep whenever a new camera is released, so they need something to pick on
In general I agree with your statement except when you're talking about the primary tool by which a pro earns his living. To me it's different than knocking an entry level camera or even a mid level. This is a professional tool. The flagship sports camera for the company that leads the world in sports shooters. So the stakes are a bit different. This is not supposed to be just another camera - but the best camera in the world for PROFESSIONAL sports shooters. So from that perspective I don't think it's asking too much that it perform at least as well as it's predecessor.

But again, keeping things in perspective - it DOES perform just as well and even better in many instances. But that's of very little importance to a pro who has to shoot sports in the hot sun.

No doubt Canon had it's work cut out trying to squeeze in another 2 fps. But as the flagship pro body for the worlds' sports shooters I don't think they (the pro sports shooters) are asking too much.
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 9:16 AM   #18
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i had the mark II and moved to mark III. I personally feel the AF locks faster and better than the mark II. I mean there is a definite improvement.

I am in Atlanta and the weather is really warm here. Wil try some AF-Tracking today. I cant find a runner. Probably i will set up the camera along side a road and try tracking a car.

I did try once with a friend of mine. Made him run six times and helped him loose 0.05lbs..

In that i got consistantly around 21/30 keepers(4 OOF were when the runner was close). And even the ones that were OOF were the onese when the runner came really close to the lens. I have a video that i can share if somebody wants it.

Those who keep crying out loud abt how canon let them down, i deifnitel feel they are reading more than trying to test their own. Thats my personal thought
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 9:22 AM   #19
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peripatetic wrote:
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So at this time the only game in town for me is the 5D. But Sony and Nikon will have something new to play with soon I'm sure, and of course Canon will have the 5DMkII as well.
Sony seems to be on the right track with the new A700. I've been pretty impressed with mine so far. My only real "niggle" is that Sony is a bit heavy handed with the noise reduction at higher ISO speed settings (but, that did improve significantly with the new Version 2 firmware for it).

The AF system is wonderful from what I've seen so far from mine (at least for it's market niche). If you missed it, here's a field test from a Canon shooters perspective (uses a 20D):

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...%20-A700.shtml

This thread brought it to mind, since it specifically discusses the frame rate slowing down on the 20D due to focusing, while the A700 remained fast, despite the dimmest lens of the bunch (and by default, it won't shoot without a lock unless you change it to release priority). It's too bad the reviewer didn't use a newer Canon model, since you don't see a lot of this type of commentary on how well a camera's AF tracking works very often.

But, 5fps is one thing. 10fps is something else entirely. :-) Sony has their work cut out for their upcoming Flagship DSLR to be competitive, especially given the stiff competition (which is probably going to get stiffer). They need to concentrate on the lens lineup more, too. I'm sure Canon and Nikon are not exactly standing still with R&D, either. lol.

But, knowing Sony, they'll go for a higher Megapixel (20+) sensor versus Nikon's approach with the D3. I'd prefer the larger photosites with better high ISO peformance myself. lol We'll just have to wait until they're ready for us to know to find out what kind of specs their new Flagship will have (and they've been keeping it under very tight wraps from all outward appearances).

Next year should be pretty interesting. For that matter, next month should be pretty interesting leading into PMA. That's when we'll likely see some product launches from the major manufacturers.

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Old Dec 12, 2007, 9:47 AM   #20
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That's it? :-)
-> What a picky bunch!!!

I can name at least a dozen more instances where the MkIII is that much improved over the MrkII, and here we are with everyone focusing on just one single instance of hot and sunny day... where the MrkIII anecdotally falls behind:
http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/pr...tml#post454383

Just chill back, get a shade and have a beer... :lol::-):G

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