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Old Sep 14, 2003, 10:41 AM   #1
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Default 1Ds vs 10D: picture sizes

I saw a post on another forum where someone asked the usual question "if you owned both, which would you keep?"

One of the answers was "if you do long distance shooting, the 1.6x crop is really useful." But someone answered "If you crop the 1Ds properly, you get the same picture (number of pixles) as the 10D. This makes up for the 1.6x crop factor of the smaller sensor in the 1Ds. So keep the 1Ds."

This seemed... well, wrong to me. But I don't know how to prove it either way. I assume you need to know the densitiy of the photosites and the sizes of the sensors... and maybe some proper math? I guess the photosite layout pattern would make a difference too. Is this correct? Anyone know how to prove this (or is able to?)

I guess the other test would be to get my hands on both cameras and then take the pictures. It just seems to me that you can't just crop to the same framing. That the 1Ds would have less data... but maybe I'm wrong. Obviously, there are a variety of ways to interpolate the cropped 1Ds picture back up to the same size and data amount as the 10D. But that isn't what I'm asking.

Eric
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Old Sep 14, 2003, 11:59 AM   #2
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Why not?

You need to treat as an area (24x36mm vs 15.1x22.7mm)... and I'm sure you can figure out the exact # of pixels on each side you'll need to crop... For example, take a picture with a 50mm at full-frame (1Ds) if you crop it down to 24x36/15.1x22.7, or diagonal ratio (almost like a digital zoom to) you get roughly the 1.6x (due to different pixel density of the two sensors) of the 10D! :P

... In practice however, the 10D will win out since its pixel density is more than the 1Ds if cropped down to the 15.1x22.7mm size... (ie more resolution for the equivalent focal lenght!)
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Old Sep 14, 2003, 2:07 PM   #3
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I wondered if it had higher pixel density for the same FOV.

The post that said they had the same density seemed wrong to me. From what you say, I'm right.

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Old Sep 14, 2003, 4:24 PM   #4
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o 1Ds -> 24x36mm with 4068x2704 pixels, ie (10999872/864=) 12731 pixels/mm2.
o 10D -> 15.1x22.7mm with 3088x2056 pixels, ie (6348928/342.77=) 18522 pixels/mm2

So to crop the 1Ds down to the FOV of the 10D, you'll only have (15.1x22.7*12731=)4363805, the effective area of a 4.36Mp camera (and not the 6.3Mp)!

Yeap, However if you put the correct tele lenses on the 1Ds @ a considerable more expense, it's still has more resolution though (and no fisheye on the 10D either)! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old Sep 14, 2003, 8:36 PM   #5
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Thank for doing the math. I didn't think that logic was right.

Personally, I can't wait until I can get something with an AF system like the 1Ds. For the F8, more focus points and the subject being more in the center of the DOF.

But I'm adicted to the 1.6x. I watched a person using a Nikon F5 and a 500mm. And I thought... He might have better glass, but I have a longer reach with my 100-400! (and for much less money!)

Eric
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Old Sep 15, 2003, 12:32 AM   #6
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Yeah, going back to a 1.0 multiplier will hurt, if I'll ever upgrade my camera body. I surely hope Canon keeps the 1.6 multiplier in their line of camera bodies.

Barthold
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Old Sep 15, 2003, 12:50 AM   #7
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Default This May Help...

Great article on the value of a larger sensor size:
http://www.photo.net/equipment/digital/sensorsize/

As an aside, I sold my 5mp 7i & just got a D30. The images have much more "depth" and look more "film like" to me and others I have shared images with. I posted a few in the People Pictures, for anyone interested.

Doug
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Old Sep 15, 2003, 9:57 AM   #8
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Thanks for that link. I will have to read it!

And I already like you work with the older camera, I look foward to what you can produce when you have more flexable lens choices.

Eric
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Old Sep 15, 2003, 5:12 PM   #9
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Interesting... (I just had to do it!)

With the larger sensor of the D100 (and S2), when compared to the higher density full-frame DCS-14n. The above x1.52 (x1.56) cropping almost works:
o DCS-14n -> 24x36 with 3000x4500 pixels, ie 15625 pixels/mm x mm
o D100 -> 15.6x23.7 with 2000x3008 pixels, ie 16272 pixels/mm x mm
o S2 -> 15.5x23 with 2016x3024 pixels, ie 17101 pixels/mm x mm

In effect, if one crops the DCS-14n full-frame down to the larger D100's CCD size one get an effective resolution of 5.776 Mp (a lot closer to 6.01Mp)! BTW with the S2 (6.09Mp), it works out to be only 5.57 Mp if the 14n output is cropped to the slightly smaller S2's sensor size! :P

I guess in conclusion then the larger the x factor (the smaller the sensor), the more bang for the buck (1.58 in case of the 10D)... of course provided the noise is not there in the 1st place! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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