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Old Oct 25, 2003, 6:25 AM   #11
NHL
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Just for grin sake don't shoot me, but technically there's NO "45-angled mirror that flips up when the shutter fires and allows the light to strike the image sensor" according to Steve's definition. :lol: :lol: :lol:

JMS is correct Oly used "a prism instead of a mirror" that do not flip out of the way! What do they call Electronic View Finder based cameras like the CP5700, D7/A1 then? Theses cameras do have "a viewfinder that sees through the lens (TTL)" also according to Steve's definition, but bend the light electronically through the EVF instead. Theses cameras by design have full time preview function "when the shutter fires and allows the light to strike the image sensor" (and sometime with a real-time histogram or grid/scales superimposed just like interchangeable screens on a true SLR) and not through a secondary path for viewing only, ie you see what's really being captured to film/flash. :P

The word optically is noticeably absent in the definition...

BTW there's no real 'shutter' either in both the Oly and the EVF cameras (The E20, CP5700, D7 and F717 shared the same Sony's sensors)... The mechanical shutter, if there's one, is used for a different purpose. It's designed to work in reverse to shut-off the light after the image is electronically captured to prevent smearing noise from affecting the reading of the CCD and then re-open the whole time. This mechanical shutter is also used to cancel noise in long exposure, ie take a 2s shot with the D7/i/Hi for example: the camera takes a regular shot @ 2s, it then follows automatically with another shot with the shutter closed for 2s, and the dark frame is then subtracted from the 1st canceling out the noises of long exposure! 8)
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Old Oct 25, 2003, 7:29 AM   #12
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The diagram that's in Steve's review showing a cutaway is here:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2001_.../e20n_pg2.html

The only difference in the Oly and a "conventional" SLR is that the light is bent with a prism in the first step instead of bouncing it with a mirror. There is another prism at the viewfinder level as with most other SLR's. Same concept, just accomplished in a different manner. By using a prism, they've done away with the need for a mirror to flop up and out of the way of the sensor (no movement = less vibration).

SLR's don't require interchangable lenses, although most have them.

As for the EVF's used in most P/S cameras, you're not seeing the actual light coming through the lens, you're seeing the electronic 'end-product' of that light after it hits the sensor and is coverted and sent to the EVF or LCD. Close, but not the same as seeing the actual light as in the Oly and other SLR's.

BTW, these new cameras that come with a zoom lens like the Rebel. Are they "ZLR" until you put a fixed focal length lens on them, at which point they become an SLR?
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Old Oct 25, 2003, 8:07 AM   #13
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No argument here, I just want to point out a few benefits of the EVFs (and E10/20) that I sometime missed on my 10D though:

1. It shows what's truly captured to flash, ie the optical path is not what the camera is actually storing away. You can see a good picture -> but you can have a bad image 'end-product'.
2. For night shots, one need to use the EV scale to guesstimate with an optical viewfinder. With the EVF's one can see the results especially in the WYSIWYG manual mode where adjusting both the shutter/aperture affect the outcome in real-time.
3. Live histogram in the viewfinder -> ie no need for re-view either to get this feature.
... and whole lot lighter, but some folks just can't stand EVF though

If I put my 10D on the green square is it not a Point and Shoot? :lol:
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Old Oct 25, 2003, 11:08 AM   #14
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I think both EVF and SLR have their place. I like them both. I'm currently using an Olympus C2100uz, but am trying to find a place that has a 10D in stock so that I'll have both types.
Seems like the 10D is backordered everywhere.

I agree with you completely about seeing the "end product" in an EVF. There are many advantages to this. There are also some disadvantages like focus problems and DOF problems that are more easily spotted in an optical view from an SLR.

And, yes.... I suppose technically your 10D is a P/S with the green square on. But a 10D is not what comes to mind when we refer to a "point and shoot".
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Old Oct 25, 2003, 11:21 AM   #15
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Bridged/ZLR: A Zoom Lens Reflex camera "bridges" the gap between point and shoots and SLR's. These cameras have permanently attached lenses like a point and shoot but allow the user to look through the lens via mirrors just like an SLR. Manufacturers of this type of camera, mainly Olympus, offer wide angle and telephoto converters to put on the front of the lens to increase versatility, the Canon Pro 90 IS is also a ZLR.

Although these cameras are marketed to provide the best of both worlds concerning an SLR and a Point and Shoot, there are a few things to keep in mind. First of all, the cameras are just as bulky as an SLR defeating the purpose of a compact point and shoot and the lenses are not interchangeable per se, defeating the purpose of an SLR.

Instead of interchangeable lenses to increase your focal range, manufacturers of ZLR's offer add-on dioptric lenses that can either widen or lengthen the existing lens' focal range. The upside to this technique is that the lenses are smaller than additional fully supported SLR lenses. The downside is the fact that adding optics to a preexisting lens decreases the image quality and can cause image to vignette.

Single Lens Reflex: SLR's are the most versatile cameras on the market today. With an almost infinite number of lens and accessory combinations along with speed and efficiency, these are the choice of pros and amateurs alike. These allow the user to see their subject in real time via a hinged mirror and penta-prism. Perfect for checking composition and focus.

There ...you have it ...at least by definition...otherwise they wouldn't create a category call ZLR? cheers
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Old Oct 25, 2003, 12:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Seems like the 10D is backordered everywhere.
Whoa... I would have thought with the availability of the 300D, the price drop of the S2 along with the D100 price parity, getting the 10D should be a little bit easier. Can you imagine how many lenses they are shipping out as well? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old Oct 25, 2003, 4:25 PM   #17
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You would think so, but the 10D seems more popular than ever. My local shop is backordered as well as most online places.
I even checked eCost as per our email, but they also do not have it in stock.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL
Whoa... I would have thought with the availability of the 300D, the price drop of the S2 along with the D100 price parity, getting the 10D should be a little bit easier. Can you imagine how many lenses they are shipping out as well? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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