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Old May 11, 2009, 12:11 PM   #1
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Default Going to get a 40D, 580 flash, have one lens, what else?

Hi there,

I am very likely going to be buying a 40D in the next 30 days or so along with a 580EX II flash. My friend is going to give me a Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5/4.5 II USM Standard Zoom Lens for free to get me started.

What would be a decent 'zoomier' lens to compliment the existing lens?

I like to shoot as a hobby, although I have done one wedding. I shoot a lot of 'action' shots for a local charity.

Let me know if you guys need any more info...

Thanks!
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Old May 11, 2009, 12:47 PM   #2
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My advice is - don't buy a 2nd lens until you use the first one for a while and find out where it is not meeting your ACTUAL requirements. You may find 28mm isn't wide enough for you. You may find 100mm isn't long enough. You may find you're not getting fast enough shutter speeds. Or you may find you are happy. Buying lenses just to cover more focal range is often a mistake. That can lead to buying the wrong lenses. Let your actual shooting determine whether your next lens has to be 200mm, 300mm, 400mm or 500mm or 14mm.
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Old May 11, 2009, 12:52 PM   #3
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Seconded!!!

It's easy to spend a lot of money and get something completely not right. For example, I couldn't work with the 28-105 as my main lens as it doesn't suit my style so very quickly I would find that it is lacking, you are likely to do the same either at the short, long or both ends.

If it is at both ends you then have to ask yourself which is the most important area to cover first.

I would say get shooting, have some fun and see what you are longing for something else.

Mark
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Old May 11, 2009, 1:25 PM   #4
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As a newbie, I was most concerned about zoom capabilities. I think I was mostly concerned about zoom capabilities because that was something that I thought I understood.

Fstop was not a primary concern for me. Partly because I didn't understand what it meant.

Now, I have sold all my zoom driven purchases for about 1/2 of what I paid for them. And replaced them with lenses that can hold an F of 2.8 all the way thru.

I'm still a newbie to photography. But zoom is not nearly as important as the low (or high, depending on how you describe it) F stop. Now, before some veteran steps in, the F stop isn't the whole story. But the quality of the glass inside the lens that allows the 2.8 all the way thru is the magic.

Anyway, I'm a fan of Fstop.

Comments?
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Old May 11, 2009, 2:19 PM   #5
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But zoom is not nearly as important as the low (or high, depending on how you describe it) F stop. Now, before some veteran steps in, the F stop isn't the whole story. But the quality of the glass inside the lens that allows the 2.8 all the way thru is the magic.

Anyway, I'm a fan of Fstop.

Comments?
My comment is - every shooter is different. That's the danger. To YOU, wide apertures are very important. To others it may not be. For example, if the OP is into wildlife - REACH is more important than zoom OR aperture. A 400mm 5.6 lens can be a lot more useful than any f2.8 lens the OP could reasonably affford (400mm 2.8 costs $7,000 and is a beast which generally requires tripod and full wimberly setup to use for wildlife shooting). Or if the OP is into architecture - the most important thing is wide angle with low distortion. Considering 2.8 would not often be used it's not as important. I shoot sports, so aperture IS important to me. But so is proper focal length and so is focus speed. An example - the Tamron 70-200 2.8 is a sharp lens but slow to focus. So not a good sports lens. Canon 70-200 2.8 is sharp and fast to focus but too short for soccer. It's much better to have something like a Sigma 100-300 f4 or Canon 100-400L for soccer if games are during the day. As another example, I don't have a single zoom lens under 70mm that has 2.8 aperture. Below that range I have a 24-105L (f4), 17-40L (F4), 85mm 1.8 and 50mm 1.8. Why didn't I buy a 24-70 2.8 lens? Because I don't have a need for one. The extra reach of the 24-105 outweighs the 2.8 for the types of photographs I use it for. When I want to do available light I have the 85 or the 50 because 2.8 often isn't wide enough for available light. But that's my style and my needs. Everyone is different.

Here's another example: 70-200mm lenses. Sharpest lens out there in Canon mount is the 70-200 f4-ISL. It's sharper than the non-IS version and sharper than both 2.8 versions. But more expensive than the non-is (by $450). So if pure IQ is the requirement that's the lens out of the 4 to buy. If the non-IS is good enough (and it's fantastic) you save $450 you can spend on something else. Sometimes though you need shutter speeds so 2.8 IS necessary. I own the 70-200 2.8 non-IS. Why? for sports - I need 2.8, but at 200mm I am shooting at shutter speeds at least 1/400 - so IS is of very little benefit to me so I bought the non-IS version. Mark1616 shoots sports and weddings. At wedding ceremonies you can't get shutter speeds that fast (and keep ISO reasonable) so the IS is very beneficial. So for Mark, the 70-200 2.8 IS makes perfect sense.

And, guess what? Sometimes something else entirely is more beneficial. Shoot macro or landscape? A good tripod/head can do WONDERS for your shots. If the OP spends all his money on 2.8 lenses he might not have the money for the equipment that would really benefit him.

My point is - you can't focus on a single attribute. If you don't want to throw money down the drain the key is to identify what needs your specific photography and style needs. Then understand what equipment can help fit those needs, what the various options on the market are and what the pros/cons of each are.
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Old May 11, 2009, 2:24 PM   #6
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Wow guys, thanks for all of the responses.

I think that makes sense.

Just to give you an idea of where I am coming from - I am REALLY an amateur that want's to take great pictures. I currently have (don't laugh) a Minolta DiMage 7hi. Here is a http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/dimage7hi.html

link to the review in case you are not familiar with it. I love that it is a pretty speedy camera - 7 frames per second in burst mode, and that it has a decent zoom lens - although it is a fixed lens.

I have the Minolta flashgun also - I like the fact that it recharges the flash very quickly, and has a great range.

I have NOT taken a photography class - and I definitely need to. There is one offered at the local adult community education program at the local school, and I would like to learn more about manual settings (READ FaithfulPastor, I am ashamed to say that I don't know what an Fstop is...)

Here's the deal: I like to take pictures. I have a speedy camera that can take a lot of pictures very quickly, and want to learn a lot more and upgrade. I shot one wedding, and was told that my photos were excellent (not by professionals).

ANY help that you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.

-Paul
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Old May 12, 2009, 2:44 AM   #7
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My only reservation is that you will be starting with a 28-105mm lens.

With the crop factor you get an equivalent view of 1.6*(28-105)=> 45-170.

This is not the best range for most people. Some like it fine, but most people need something a lot wider in their only lens. The 28-105 was designed to work on a 35mm camera not a crop camera.

(28-105)/1.6 => 17-65 on a crop body. There are LOTS of lenses in that range. Also that lens is not really up to the demands of today's high-resolution sensors; it was designed as an entry-level lens for 35mm film cameras.

So I would strongly recommend that you purchase your camera with the 18-55 IS kit lens, which is VERY good value for money and a much more suitable lens to start learning on. By all means take the 28-105 as an extra, but my prediction is that you will hardly use it at all.

Apart from that, I second all the advice above.

I use only one lens on my camera 95% of the time - a 50mm fixed focal length lens (it doesn't zoom at all!). It suits me and what I want to do, but would almost certainly not be the right lens for you.
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Old May 13, 2009, 6:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post

So I would strongly recommend that you purchase your camera with the 18-55 IS kit lens, which is VERY good value for money and a much more suitable lens to start learning on. By all means take the 28-105 as an extra, but my prediction is that you will hardly use it at all.
Okay, I think I am understanding where you are going, but still need a little 'hand holding' if you don't mind.

I cannot find that camera (looking on amazon.com) with that lens kit - can you please provide a link?

Sorry to be so stupid here...

Your help is GREATLY appreciated.

-Paul
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Old May 13, 2009, 7:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaithfulPastor View Post
As a newbie, I was most concerned about zoom capabilities. I think I was mostly concerned about zoom capabilities because that was something that I thought I understood.

Fstop was not a primary concern for me. Partly because I didn't understand what it meant.

Now, I have sold all my zoom driven purchases for about 1/2 of what I paid for them. And replaced them with lenses that can hold an F of 2.8 all the way thru.

I'm still a newbie to photography. But zoom is not nearly as important as the low (or high, depending on how you describe it) F stop. Now, before some veteran steps in, the F stop isn't the whole story. But the quality of the glass inside the lens that allows the 2.8 all the way thru is the magic.

Anyway, I'm a fan of Fstop.

Comments?
Comments? A question, actually...

Can you please explain F stop to me, and give me a little better insight as to the importance of F stop over zoom?

Thank you,

Paul
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Old May 13, 2009, 10:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmilnes View Post
Comments? A question, actually...

Can you please explain F stop to me, and give me a little better insight as to the importance of F stop over zoom?

Thank you,

Paul
There are a lot of camera sites that explain the f stop. A VERY elementary introduction would be something like:

The larger the Aperture value (lower f number), the more light that is captured for a given exposure (open shutter) time. So in low light situations or fast shutter needs (like sports) you may want to use a larger Aperture like f/1.8 or f/2.8 while in bright light a smaller aperture like f/5 or f/8 or more may work fine. Higher apertures (lower f stop) also reduce the depth of field so that only a small area in front of and behind your focused subject will also be in focus while a small aperture will give a lot deeper range of stuff in focus.

Hopefully, I didn't butcher this too bad.

Unfortunately as the Aperture value increases (everything else being constant) the cost of the lenses seem to go up exponentially. If not we'd all have 100-600mm f/1.8 lenses!

I don't really want to promote other camera sites here but even wikipedia has a decent explanation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number.

Good Luck,
Andy
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