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Old Jan 12, 2010, 12:17 AM   #31
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Thanks guys for your advice, extremely helpful. I have had a few opportunities to purchase second hand lenses but prefer to wait, not long now, one more pay packet away i reckon.
Thanks again.
good luck man, looking forward to seeing more of your work once you get your lens.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 1:07 AM   #32
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I'm seeing the same thing in your images that I see in many 7D samples, including my own and that is an apparent lack of sharpness and detail. I have beat myself silly this past 3 weeks trying to figure out why the 7D is like this. I thought maybe there was a sweet spot but then realized I really would not want a camera that only worked well in a certain situation. With previous bodies I was up and outside shooting anything and everything. When it got dark I was inside shooting anything and everything. My 7D sits next to me now ready to be boxed back up. I never wanted to like a camera so bad.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 4:16 AM   #33
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I'm seeing the same thing in your images that I see in many 7D samples, including my own and that is an apparent lack of sharpness and detail. I have beat myself silly this past 3 weeks trying to figure out why the 7D is like this. I thought maybe there was a sweet spot but then realized I really would not want a camera that only worked well in a certain situation. With previous bodies I was up and outside shooting anything and everything. When it got dark I was inside shooting anything and everything. My 7D sits next to me now ready to be boxed back up. I never wanted to like a camera so bad.
I wouldn't say there is an apparent lack of sharpness or detail. I think the 7D does a great job for APS-C and if you are pixel peeping remember you are looking at a huge image. Which previous bodies did you have?
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 8:33 AM   #34
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Sorry, I didnt mean to put down your shot. This is something I see in all 7D shots. I started with the first Digital Rebel, 10D, 20, 30, 40, 1Dmkii and recently tried the Nikon D300S.

I have heard the 100% crop comment before along with the 7D needing a higher shutter speed than other bodies and more precise exposure, even comments such as.. the conditions have to be just right. The last three comments, if true, are not very good defenses for the 7D. The 100% crop I understand but that only says one thing, which is the 18 MP rating of the 7D is not as usefull as one would hope. One purpose of larger MP is to be able to crop from the original and still have a quality result. The problem is the closer you get to 100% with the 7D, the less IQ you have, negating the usefullness of the 18MP image. Im not just talking on screen. For example your second gull shot sitting on the post. I took a shot not unlike this one and cropped the head / neck section to make a 5x7 print, something you should be able to do and something I did all the time with other bodies. That lack of IQ came through in print. One will then say, you have to take a larger area 100% crop. Well again that negates the usefullness of the 18 MP image.

Its possible I have a bad body. I recommended this camera to my friend based on my experience with Canon bodies. He got one the same time I did and having tried his 7D, I get the same results. I noticed the production or serial numbers on both are close so its still possible we got bad copies. Im actually trying to locate someone down in the Huntington Beach area that has the 7D. I plan on being there the next few days and was hoping to take sample shots from a different body of the same scene and compare results. Otherwise both bodies are going back since our return period is approaching fast. Its sad that we are willing to eat a 15% restocking fee.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 8:46 AM   #35
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I wasn't worried about my shot at all, I just wouldn't like someone to get the wrong idea of a camera.

With the cameras you've had yourself and the D300s you've looked at they have lower pixel densities so with the latter Canon's and the Nikon you are likely to see a higher per pixel quality, especially the 1DmkII. When it comes to real world printing rather than 100% pixel viewing things change and the differences go away. You are going to get very similar results from the D300s to the 7D. I personally think Nikon has been very sensible with keeping low MP counts and making the per pixel detail better, however that isn't always the best way to sell a camera as users like big numbers. I would rather the 7D was at 12mp or 15 with better per pixel results but Canon had already gone with the 15mp on the 50D so users would want more. The per pixel detail is about the same with the 50D and 7D so there are gains between the two.

I wouldn't suggest changing systems if you already have an investment in Canon gear as that will be a huge waste.

As for needing higher shutter speeds, I guess you are talking about the 1/35mm focal length rule. This has been noted by others with the 5D moving to the 5D mkII where it is possible to see shake at the same settings as you have more details.

Basically I don't think 18mp is something to get excited about and on an APS-C sensor people shouldn't be expecting big improvements (yet, I can't say what will come out in the future). What is exciting is the very good AF, general handling, fast continuous shooting.

The only way you are going to get the ability to crop images better is the 1D mkIV or the 5DmkII. Downsides being you have to use a longer lens in the first place.

I would put the 7D just above the D300s but sure Nikon will bring something out to go past the 7D again and then Canon will come back.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 1:56 PM   #36
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as mark said, the 50D and 7D are not different at the per-pixel sharpness level. It is well established the 40D had greater perpixel sharpness than the 50D, however that difference was fully offset by the increase in nominal resolution, resulting in the 2 cameras resolving details nearly identically.

Now, with the 7D having a greater nominal resolution than the 50D, but with similar per-pixels sharpness, we should see a gain in detail resolving power. So extrapolating we should see a definite increase in detail vs your 40D, whether or not this is something you would see on a print, i don't know, but it definitely should not produce a worse print as you are suggesting.

Maybe there is something wrong in the calibration of that production run. I don't know, I would say its worth further investigation, as you have suggested, I am interested to hear your results with another body.
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Old Jan 17, 2010, 10:05 AM   #37
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I have had my 7D since October and have been very happy with the IQ. I had a 50D before that and was also extremely happy with the IQ, except a bit more noise than I would have liked.
The first thing you MUST do is throw out the Canon DPP software. It left my images seriously lacking resolution.
Another thing to do is go through the menu settings and setup your camera to your needs and taste. Canon settings out of the box, at least in my experience, as well as many other manufacturers, is a middle of the road average and should be tweaked to suit your needs.
I shoot television news and stills for a living and have never found an electronic camera ready to go right out of the box.
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Old Jan 21, 2010, 5:29 PM   #38
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My 7D was dropped off at Canon Service Center on Tuesday. The online status says complete and to be shipped back to me soon. Unfortunately they do not mention if they actually found a problem, which if they didn't thats a bad thing. Since my return period is up I will either be keeping or trading the body depending on the repair results. The 7D video really impresses me but its not enough for me to look past the still image results Im seeing. A used 1Dmkii or mkii n might may be in my near future. My fingers are crossed though. I have never wanted to like a camera body so bad.
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 6:38 AM   #39
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Looks a nice camera, although my 40D does not seem as noisy as this or the 50D
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 7:51 AM   #40
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Looks a nice camera, although my 40D does not seem as noisy as this or the 50D
It it true that at a per pixel level there is more noise going to the 50D and 7D, but unfortunately Canon wants to appeal to those who desire bragging rights to big numbers (ie mega pixels) so have pushed too hard. I would much rather Canon had made the 50D a 12mp camera with better noise handling and possibly the 7D up to the 14-15mp region but never mind. When it comes to real world the noise is perfectly manageable.
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