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Old Jan 10, 2011, 3:10 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by DSProtection View Post
I guess Rudy is the one who calls himself Justin Thymes? Well according to him it would be almost impossible to have ā good hit rate with anything less than ā 7d. Thats not true. I also said that the 7d was ā better camera.
Well, here's ā link to ā polish photographer who takes great sports photos with ā 30d and ā 50d.
Name is Rob, not Rudy...No need to drag A Canon employee into this.

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Originally Posted by DSProtection View Post
Hey, this thread wasnīt about any "PRO". Itīs about a parent who wants to shoot his sonīs basketball games. And for that I donīt think he will concider a pro body. I mean, he even thinks that a 7D is a bit overkill for what he shoots.
And if you are a pro, then you know you could get a pretty good hit rate with even a 50D. I donīt have to tell you. That said, and as I said before, there is always gonna be better cameras. And I have never said a pro should get a rebel or something. A pro body is of course better in every way.
The hit rate isnīt the only reason a pro would want a pro body though. Right!
Iīve never said that a rebel is better than a pro body. But what I said is that I manage to shoot sports and action with a 50D and with a Nikon D5000. And I know a lot of people who do. Maybe you donīt, but I do.

Chill out a bit. Everybody isnīt a "Pro" photographer and have the needs of a pro.

Best regards/Daniel
Daniel, My first post in this thread was simply pointing out the differences and I didnt recommend a pro body, I recommended a 7D. I never insinuated anything more. Just the facts.

Reviewing the pics you posted they are all back focused (had to look hard as the DOF is like 10ft and there is no exif data in the images). Of course everything is going to be in focus when you shoot that choked down on the aperture. Now try that at f2.8 (where the DOF is more like 1 ft). I didnt post in here to start a moaing and groaning match although admittedly I took offense to your first post in this thread "Of course a 7D has faster af than the 60D, but to say that itīs really difficult to shoot sports with a 50D or a 60D due to itīs af is mumbo jumbo". I leave out the part insulting my photographic abilites. I can shoot sports with my daughters barbie camera but that doesnt mean its a good choice if I want stellar images. My point was and is to the OP that for a little more he can get the 7D which will perform better at sports than a 60D. If he thinks thats overkill for his needs then thats his preferences and priorities. I have nothing against the 50D, I bought one for my wife as the Pro size body is too much for her to handle. I tried shooting with it as a second body with a 70-200 2.8L IS II attached and it just didnt meet my expectations. Sure it got a few decent images but my choices were limited due to the slower frame rate, much smaller buffer and OOF shots (I shoot f2.8 unless I have to choke back because its too bright). Put the same lens on a MKIII as a second and my choices increased at least 3 fold. Nothing gets under ones skin more than knowing they were set up perfectly and got a capture thats out of this world just to find out its OOF.

I see plenty of parents shooting with 40 and 50Ds as well as pretty much every Rebel and P&S in the line up. I get parents approaching me on the sidelines all the time and the number one quesiton.......Why cant get pictures like yours? Some are quite skilled but are being held back by gear limitations. One in particular was shooting a 50D and nailed the exposures perfectly and was shooting full manual but more than half were OOF. We talked a bit and he asked if he could do better and I gave him the same advice. Next time I saw him he is shooting a 7D and his hit rate increased dramatically.

In the end can you get decent sports photos with a 50D? Well as stated before, yes. You can also get them with an XTi for far less money. Can you do better with a 7D again as stated before, yes and even better with a 1D MKIV.

Last edited by JustinThyme; Jan 10, 2011 at 3:13 AM.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 6:38 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by JustinThyme View Post
Name is Rob, not Rudy...No need to drag A Canon employee into this.



Daniel, My first post in this thread was simply pointing out the differences and I didnt recommend a pro body, I recommended a 7D. I never insinuated anything more. Just the facts.

Reviewing the pics you posted they are all back focused (had to look hard as the DOF is like 10ft and there is no exif data in the images). Of course everything is going to be in focus when you shoot that choked down on the aperture. Now try that at f2.8 (where the DOF is more like 1 ft). I didnt post in here to start a moaing and groaning match although admittedly I took offense to your first post in this thread "Of course a 7D has faster af than the 60D, but to say that itīs really difficult to shoot sports with a 50D or a 60D due to itīs af is mumbo jumbo". I leave out the part insulting my photographic abilites. I can shoot sports with my daughters barbie camera but that doesnt mean its a good choice if I want stellar images. My point was and is to the OP that for a little more he can get the 7D which will perform better at sports than a 60D. If he thinks thats overkill for his needs then thats his preferences and priorities. I have nothing against the 50D, I bought one for my wife as the Pro size body is too much for her to handle. I tried shooting with it as a second body with a 70-200 2.8L IS II attached and it just didnt meet my expectations. Sure it got a few decent images but my choices were limited due to the slower frame rate, much smaller buffer and OOF shots (I shoot f2.8 unless I have to choke back because its too bright). Put the same lens on a MKIII as a second and my choices increased at least 3 fold. Nothing gets under ones skin more than knowing they were set up perfectly and got a capture thats out of this world just to find out its OOF.

I see plenty of parents shooting with 40 and 50Ds as well as pretty much every Rebel and P&S in the line up. I get parents approaching me on the sidelines all the time and the number one quesiton.......Why cant get pictures like yours? Some are quite skilled but are being held back by gear limitations. One in particular was shooting a 50D and nailed the exposures perfectly and was shooting full manual but more than half were OOF. We talked a bit and he asked if he could do better and I gave him the same advice. Next time I saw him he is shooting a 7D and his hit rate increased dramatically.

In the end can you get decent sports photos with a 50D? Well as stated before, yes. You can also get them with an XTi for far less money. Can you do better with a 7D again as stated before, yes and even better with a 1D MKIV.
About my soccer pics, I actually donīt see any back focus. About the dof, well itīs hard to get more and better dof with a lens that has f4,5 as the biggest aparteure. Are the pics bad because of that? I donīt think so. If you do thats up to you.
And Iīm really sorry that you were insulted. I never insulted your photographic abilities. I just said that if you have such problem shooting sports with a 50D, then itīs probably because och you as a photographer or the lens. Nothing insulting in that. People did take great sports photos even before the 7D and the 1D mkIV.
I see no meaning continue this discussion, so I end it here.

Take care/Daniel
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 1:23 PM   #33
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Can I ask, what kind of shape was your refurb 7D? How many activations? That was my other thought, I see 50D's for around $719....they are selling on ebay for that or more?
My 7D came in perfect condition with all the acc in sealed packages. it came in a white box that says Refurbished on it and it has a little gold sticker on the bottom that says the same, otherwise you would not be able to tell it from a brand new one. I think the the counter started at 15 when I got it, but I can't remember. You can also get the 50D from Canon on the same program, but I can't remember the price (on edit it was $719 plus local sales tax, shipped free, but that was a couple of months ago).

Last edited by waoldrifleman; Jan 10, 2011 at 1:27 PM.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 11:35 PM   #34
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About my soccer pics, I actually donīt see any back focus. About the dof, well itīs hard to get more and better dof with a lens that has f4,5 as the biggest aparteure. Are the pics bad because of that? I donīt think so. If you do thats up to you.
And Iīm really sorry that you were insulted. I never insulted your photographic abilities. I just said that if you have such problem shooting sports with a 50D, then itīs probably because och you as a photographer or the lens. Nothing insulting in that. People did take great sports photos even before the 7D and the 1D mkIV.
I see no meaning continue this discussion, so I end it here.

Take care/Daniel

I'd like to say something here because I wasted my time reading this thread. One of the reason's I like Steve's is that people give good feedback pro and con. There are times when people disagree, which is great for all of us who are learning, but its normally done on merit as well as a polite manner. The odd time, it gets out of hand but I've found this isn't normal practice.

The author of this thread, from my interpretation (since considering the T2i and having kids) is someone probably like myself and on a budget and they're looking for advice on how to achieve a reasonably good picture for (more than likely) a family album and too share with relatives. Suggesting high price models and explaining their capabilities in comparison is fine to highlight what to strive for and assists many readers looking for more information. More knowledge is good, after all. Then, a decision based on finances and knowledge can be made with confidence. Which brings us back to WHY people are asking questions.

Now, I don't know DSProtection (Daniel) and I don't know Justintyme (Rob). Upon reading the posting, I didn't find Daniel's warranted Rob's response which was entirely sarcastic and out of line. If anyone should be apologizing it should've been you, Rob. It's not the first time I've read something from you which attacks another poster and is down right rude. Quite frankly, I don't even normally read your postings any longer because of this pattern....which is too bad because I think you have good information when you're not busy typing with your nose out of joint.

With respect to people who are clearly starting out in the DSLR world and are merely looking for advice on different camera/lens capabilities PLEASE try to focus on their needs and not entering into a war or words.

Thank you.
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 5:57 PM   #35
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion and my personality often clashes with others when it comes to factual observations. It was not my intent to disgruntle anyone from my original posting. Yes I did recommend 1 body higher and the rest was comparison purposes. Believe me I checked any sense of flaming at the door. Im not going to comment any further on the discussion between myself and Daniel as we both have put it to bed and I intend to leave a sleeping dog alone.

My advice was based on having already been down that road. With hindsight always being 20/20. I thought I would offer up advice to the OP on the 7D as it is the budget model for the intended purpose. I went from film to DSLR with an XTi and shooting sports with that body was out of the question. I migrated up to a 40D, then a 50D, then a MKIIN in a matter of months trying to save myself money finding along the way that I was just causing myself anguish as I could not achieve the results I sought until I bought the MKIIN. At that point in time there was no prosumer sports alternative, the 7D is a recent development and IMO a good one for those who want to capture their kids sports and get professional results without having to go into the Pro body realm at over $4k now for the MKIV. The point is and has been if you want professional results for a slightly higher price tag then 7D is the way to go. If your budget prohibits the extra few hundred bucks then go with what you can afford but be prepared to take into account that the few bucks saved wont get the same results. I know I would have appreciated it if someone pointed it out to me to save the hassle I went through to get the results I was after.
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 6:10 PM   #36
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Here are 2 that my son {16} shot with a 40D, 70-200 2.8 non IS.







Here are 2 from my 7D, 70-200 2.8 IS MII



Frank,
As requested a little C&C on these shots. Ill not comment ATM on exposure as Im on a non calibrated laptop display but will amend when Im on my desktop that has a calibrated monitor.
The subjects are all good subjects. The framing could use a little work in #2 and #3. In #2 with multiple subjects and a narrow aperture its a bit difficult to pull off, if I had the same scenario and had to have the DOF so narrow I would have put focus point on the center subject and for this particular shot landscape orientation would have been more appropriate IMO. For #3 the main subject it too high up in the frame. I would have framed that a bit on the loose side so the forground players foot isnt cut off and the head of the main subject follows the rule of 3rds with is head being about where his armpit is in the frame. Ill edit for exposures when I get on my desktop.

Happy shooting!
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Old Jan 18, 2011, 9:23 PM   #37
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Frank,
Now that I ve had a chance to view these on the monitor on my desktop The WB is off a bit, more so in #1 and #2 and # 4 is pretty darn close to being right. The WB is different across the board on all of them. The dead giveaway is the white wall in the back, look at just the wall and scoll the images.

My usual practice is to establish WB as closely as possible and leave it there for the duration of the shoot. I know its tough under HID lighting shooting with available light. With them all the same I normally use an adobe batch process for them all. Over time Ive recorded enough processes to cover just about every scenario so now its a drop down menu away. For a given set one would want even exposure and WB across the board. A batch ensures every image is processed the same. If you note some less than desirable images after the batch they can be addressed one at a time but as time goes on you will notice that is necessary far less often.


BTW #4 is a great composition.

Last edited by JustinThyme; Jan 18, 2011 at 9:28 PM.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 9:33 AM   #38
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Im no sports photographer but I recently took these of my sons basketball game, really bad lighting, ISO 64000 (no flash) with a 50D and 100 F2.8L macro at F2.8. They are not great but came out ok in my opinion





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