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Old Jan 25, 2004, 12:48 AM   #1
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Default 10D, now I feel cheated by Canon

Here's some pretty convincing data that Canon put the wrong AF system in the 10D, and that out-of-focus shots will simply happen, no matter how good your technique, your lens, or how well your camera plus lens are calibrated.

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/af-accuracy/

and

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/af-flaw/

Actually all articles on canondslr are worth reading.

I can believe it. Some of my F2.8 shots (on tripod with shutter release) of contrasty items in day light are way off.

Barthold
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 3:17 AM   #2
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Well I can only say one thing about this :roll:.

Allthough I have heard people about the front and backfocussing I use ALOT of f2.8 shots from both a Sigma 70-210f2.8 and the new Tamron 28-75f2.8 and they all come out TACKsharp with perfect focus.

The problem however is knowing what to do, and knowing that the focus point is bigger than what you see on your screen.

I did alot of testing in the REAL world, not the strange ruler tests and ALL tests were picture perfect and accurate, even when using the extreme small DOF on close up of eyes, wacking the hairs out of focus and the eye itself tacksharp.

Offcourse when I go out some shots are bad or unfocused but that can happen always, under test conditions ALL shots are 95-100% accurate.

There are Canon's out with problems, but remember that the 10D is probarbly one of the best selling DSLR's out there all time, offcourse when you sell 10.000.000 units there will be more problems (in figures) than when you sell 10.000 units.

And because the 10D also comes in the hands of amateurs (no harm meant) it will be bad handled, the first week I also almost cried after buying the 10D, it was soft, focus was off, and the pictures were simply put BAD.

After changing my lens, discovering USM and getting the AF to the center it improved very much, and now with my new lenses I don't even have to use USM any more.

You get what you pay for I guess, the 10D should be mated with good glass and someone who know's what he/she is doing.

AND EVEN THEN there can be problem units, I don't deny that.

Greetings,
Frank
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 8:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
I can believe it. Some of my F2.8 shots (on tripod with shutter release) of contrasty items in day light are way off.
I've tried this too... The trick is to realize that the AF sensors do not cover the 'exact' area as the red outline indicates in the viewfinder. With my 10D (like Frank) it's slighly larger, for example if one constrains the edge of the rectangle as the boundary of your AF point... one might be off because it will also focus on the outer areas if a subject overlap the focus point. If a tiny subject (birds for example) stayed inside the red rectangle, it might be off... Offsetting the composition so that the object straddles the red AF rectangles helps a lot!

http://www.pbase.com/image/18920257/large
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 12:37 PM   #4
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I've read that the focus area is larger than the denoted area as well. Haven't checked it, but I've read it a few times.

Unfortunately, the person who owns and writes everything for canondslr.com is a very known person (if you read other Internet photography forums.) He is certainly a knowledgeable person about AF, optics, and camerasÖ so if someone would be able to figure stuff out stuff about 10Dís AF system, he is one of them.

He posted a lot on dpreview.com before he was kicked out (twice, I believe.) Then he posted on (I think) fredmiranda's forums and on robgalbraith's site. I believe he was kicked off both of those as well.

The reason he was kicked was because he would continually harp on the AF on the 10D. I've seen some deep discussions about why his arguments are wrong, and I've seen others try to back him up. I truly don't know if he's right, but I've rarely ever seen him try to have a serious discussion of facts and methodology... often it broke down into him ignoring the argument against him and repeating himself. He was also very willing to break forum rules to argue his points (which is what got him kicked off robgalbraith's site.)

I truly don't know enough to discuss or really comprehend his points. As you will see if you read his site, it gets very technical very quickly. What I can say is that other knowledgeable people have argued that he is wrong. That if he were right, the AF wouldnít work at all (at least in earlier forms of his argument.)

So take those articles with a grain of salt.

What I can say is that Iím seriously considering getting the 1Dís replacement when it comes out. Iíll wait awhile and look for reviews. But the AF system is the big thing that I dislike about the 10D. If I could sell my 10D for a good price, Iíll be tempted Ďcause the 1Dís replacement should have better AF.

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Old Jan 25, 2004, 1:59 PM   #5
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Hi All,

Frank, that is interesting to hear you get good shots most of the time. The good news is that it is easy to take plenty of shots, and throw away the bad ones :-)

BUT, what makes his post so interesting is that he claims that even if you have a perfectly fine 10D body, and are a perfect photographer, you still will get out of focus shots. That is what worries me. The crucial question here being how often (what percentage) of shots will be bad because of this? I do find his little movie of 20 or so shots taken on a tripod of the same subject, but with wildly different focus, pretty interesting.

NHL, yes I've seen the charts with the actual sizes of the AF sensors, as posted by Chuck of Canon USA. It is easy to forget though when you're taking pictures that the nice little square in your viewfinder is not the actual AF area Yes, I always just use the center point.

Eric, if there's a replacement of the 10D coming out soon you might be better off selling yours now, and not wait till the replacement is announced.

Anyways, time to go take some pictures!

Barthold
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 11:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
What I can say is that Iím seriously considering getting the 1Dís replacement when it comes out. Iíll wait awhile and look for reviews. But the AF system is the big thing that I dislike about the 10D. If I could sell my 10D for a good price, Iíll be tempted Ďcause the 1Dís replacement should have better AF.
Eric

Have you take a look at the DCS-14n? It's AF is based on the F5 which is probably the best AF focus around and is based on a separate CCD in the prism rather than phase detectors... It's current price is very tempting for a full-frame camera if you can live with its quirks...
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 12:02 PM   #7
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The only thing about the DCS-14n that I've heard that may dissuade you is battery life. The clerk at the store where I bought my Rebel said that the battery isn't good enough for outside the studio shooting. In studio it was good but essentially you wanted it to be plugged in the AC during shooting.

I've found both my Canon's to have great battery life which is a big plus in my view.
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 12:38 PM   #8
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FYI

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe....14.34.3&lc=en

... but you're right, it's an excellent camera for studio shoots!
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 1:20 PM   #9
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Which movie ??
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 2:19 PM   #10
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Hi Frank,

The movie I meant is in one of his other articles. http://www.canondslr.com/articles/ai-servo/

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