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Old Feb 1, 2004, 12:13 AM   #21
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Thanks Barthold

In any event, I've done the test in the same way that willie did his and I'll be posting the result as soon as I can get it uploaded (slow connection and I'm leaving the photo large)

The focus was smack on the money though, and I appreciate your suggestions for a more valid test, which I will take the time to do as well another day. I just want something up here that will offer people "another side" of the same story.

I should be getting my lense next week, depending on the mail. It's on it's way, though. Again, thanks for the comments and suggestions for a more accurate testing.

EDIT - okay, here's my quicky test, very similar to unclewillie's format. The particulars are noted on the page. My Rebel seems to be focusing fine.:
Quote:
Test
http://www.brrd.ab.ca/nnorway/carrweb/focustest.htm
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 9:48 AM   #22
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Whoa, what a thread!

Let apply some logic shall we, and assume the poster centered the focus point around the brown line which I tried to align with here:



1. There's not much for the center AF point to focus on (the red marker area) except for the yellow color.
2. The horizontal AF sensor is sensitive to vertical lines which the horizontal markings on the ruler do not help any...
3. What remained is the vertical AF sensor which pick up most of the contrasting AF info on the bottom 1/3 (the top 2/3 are being useless)!

This camera works just like it's supposed to, this has has been posted before numerous times: the AF sensors are larger than the marker in the viewfinder!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
(ie shift the center AF point/marker slightly to the left so that all horizontal markings on the ruler align center with all the AF sensors will do wonders...)
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 10:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewillie
Tuanokc, bad choice of words. I didnt mean wider I meant higher. I know how aperatures work. I just can't type. Like I said I have been using an EOS SLR since 1985.

You compeletely missed MY point. Try taking a picture of a one year old (as the original poster was asking about) indoors with f/16 or higher. In aperature priority mode the shutter will be slow even with the flash on. A tripod and timer does you no good when the subject (a one year old) is moving as one year olds always do. Even if you use a flash the shutter speed will be too slow in aperature priority mode. You need full manual mode as someone els e correctly pointed out .

You can go to any Danon DSLR forum and read about focus issues with the D10 or DRebel and the response is always the same: Get a point and shoot, you need to learn how to use it, "The Rebel takes soft images and you nded to do post processing on all of your images to 'add sharpness'" and "mine works fine."

Norm, Sorry, I didn't shell out the big bucks for an L series Lens. I had the same experiance with the Tamron 28-300 lens and my old trusty Canon 50 mm f/1.8. The reason I took the ruler pic is I wanted to see if It really was front focussing. Do you not agree that the field of focus is well in front of the subject? I was using center point AF and the center point was glowing red right where the cell phone was.

By the way, I find it somewhat disingenuous that YOU also asked me to post a picture on the other thread and then you post here" What does one do with these people with their crude little rulers and tests" You asked for a photo, I posted one.

Willie
Bubb...

Did I miss your point? may be, but I don't think so, my sugguestion for slow synchro AV mode shooting is for that low light ruler test. I don't recall in any of my posts mentioned taking picture of a young child, except one expample I did mention a subject to clarify the effects of ambient light mixing with flash light in slow synchro mode ( you probably want to try it sometimes especially with one of the flash meter with the flash analysis mode built in ). Even if you want to try to shoot slow synchro AV mode with young kids, it's pefectly okay to. The duration of flash is about 1/10,000, fast enough to freeze any motion sbject, it will help to minimize any minor motion, remember, blur motion effects it the beauty of photography, not out of focus, is un-acceptable, are two different things.

Yes I read those posts on the 10D and the Rebel all the time, but I said most of them does not make sense, people need to learn more how to use SLR before jump up with rediculious paranoia conclusions. Of course there are few of occasions when the real subject matter is defective cameras, but not in all cases.

All I can say is: if you are going to do the test, do is properly...

Man must learn to know his limitation... 8)
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 10:10 AM   #24
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 10:15 AM   #25
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Let's keep it civilized everyone... We're all here to help one another :P :P :P
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 12:29 PM   #26
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Tuanokc, You did miss my point(s). Lets try again:

1) If you set the aperature small enough the depth of field wil be so deep that any focus test will be worthless - nearly anything will appear to be in focus. If you have ever gone to a good eye doctor he puts drops in your eyes to dialate your pupils before testing them. Why? To open up the aperture so he knows how your eyes are really focussing.

2) In aperature mode the shutter will adjust to give the proper exposure as if the flash was not activated. The flash power is reduced and will not stop a moving subject from blurring. I know. I tried it. Have you? You need to use manual mode and set both the shutter and aperture in order to get sufficient flash output. As ohenry correctly posted "If you set the Av to f/16 in Av mode, the camera will select the corresponding shutter speed based on existing light conditions. The flash will then act as fill flash, not the main light. This is the normal behavior as explained in the manual."

3) My main point is that they original poster wants to photograph his kid. Setting the shutter to f/16 in aperture mode won't help.

4) You still have not commented on the focus photo that I posted at your request.

NHL, Do you have an analysis of the focus in this photo?
http://www.pbase.com/image/25617074/original

Willie
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 1:13 PM   #27
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I certainly know how people feel when it comes to expensive camera bodies that dont perform as expected. I am actually on my 2nd 10D in as many weeks, cause my first one after about 400 shots started giving me the dreaded "error 99" message. I tested it with many lenses, Canon and non Canon. The camera gave me the error consistantly. It even gave me the error a few times when there was no lens on the camera (which Canon tech support said was supposedly impossible :lol: )
It just so happened that i got a "lemon". No big deal, I just exchanged it for a new body, and now am at ~650 pics with the new body no problem.
My point is that you never know with electronic devices, it can be a defect, or it can be user error.. but the thing to remember is always be patient, and work through your problems as methodically as possible. Hopefully a solution will present itself.
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 5:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewillie
Tuanokc, You did miss my point(s). Lets try again:

1) If you set the aperature small enough the depth of field wil be so deep that any focus test will be worthless - nearly anything will appear to be in focus. If you have ever gone to a good eye doctor he puts drops in your eyes to dialate your pupils before testing them. Why? To open up the aperture so he knows how your eyes are really focussing.

2) In aperature mode the shutter will adjust to give the proper exposure as if the flash was not activated. The flash power is reduced and will not stop a moving subject from blurring. I know. I tried it. Have you? You need to use manual mode and set both the shutter and aperture in order to get sufficient flash output. As ohenry correctly posted "If you set the Av to f/16 in Av mode, the camera will select the corresponding shutter speed based on existing light conditions. The flash will then act as fill flash, not the main light. This is the normal behavior as explained in the manual."

3) My main point is that they original poster wants to photograph his kid. Setting the shutter to f/16 in aperture mode won't help.


Willie
Willie,

Look like the more I try, the same thing like somebody try to pour water over the duck head.

1. you keep saying open the lens up, damm it, get it straight, shut down the lens, get greater depth of field, but for point of focus test, look at NHL's example, end of story.

2. In AV mode, with or without flash, the shutter speed selected by the camera re-act the same way, that means at small aperture, it will select slower synchro speed or shutter speed to allow the ambient light mix with flash light, the longer the times, the more ambient light, the shorter time, more flash light will dominate the scence. Flash power reduce does not nessesary reduce the flash duration, flash duration bubb... will freeze the action...3. To use the manual mode, you need the flash meter, the built-in meter doesn't work in manual mode.

4. You're keep talking about the main light and fill light, if you're using multi-lights setting, dealing with lighting ratio to distance the main light and the fill lights from the subject or set light ratio on each of the flash head to create lighting ratio effects. In the case of slow synchro AV mode without studio setting, only with on camera flash, to control that ratio between the flash and ambient light, you need a flash meter with the flash ratio analysis mode such as the Sekonic 608 or Minolta flash meter V. If you refer to abient light as main light, that's fine, too, but understand the basic, it's important.

I'm done with this post...
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 7:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewillie
NHL, Do you have an analysis of the focus in this photo?
http://www.pbase.com/image/25617074/original

Willie
Well unless you didn't not select the center AF point, your camera has gone bizzare and picked either of the lower two AF sensors on its own!



May be you should follow Gandalf065 advice and return it back to Canon for repair... BTW I do agree with you that for checking AF one need to open the aperture all the way and not mask it with an increase in DOF.

...With all that said however, it does look like the flash output did also follow the lower two AF points with the metering bias toward the lower two sensors as well (ie underexposed toward the top 1/2). ie try to focus on the back cartons -> the flash metering will also be bias back there accordingly. IMO the camera did not register the phone in the center at all (in both AF and metering)!
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Old Feb 1, 2004, 10:55 PM   #30
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Hi ALL

I am new to Photography and fourms. Recently purchased a 300D( I have had mine for about a month). I might say I am very please with it. My Kids a very active in sports and that was the reason we dicided on the 300d. Other then the learning Curve on how to use it, I am very pleased with it. I use the TV and AV modes almost all the time. I get my fair share of bad shots, although I would like to beleave that is lack of experance and not the camera. To me it looks like we have someone who has nothing better to do then Jam on Canon. However all I wanted to do is let any thinking of a 300d and is reading this string do not detered.The 300d is really a good outfit.


http://www.maccoy.net
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