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Old Apr 24, 2004, 5:47 PM   #1
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Default 10D noise at ISO200

I had convinced myself that the noise on the noise level of ISO 200 was not bad. That it didn't matter enough that I should just use ISO200 all the time.

Well, I've changed my mind today after taking some pictures of an Opsrey in slight backlight. This cause the white breast to be in shadow. After doing the RAW conversion and then sharpening I noised noise in the breast. I thought "that isn't right, maybe I'm imagining it." So I saved it as 8-bit jpg and ran it through neatimage. Much, much better. Now I can sharpen that picture and the feather detail is still there but the noise isn't.

I'm off to buy neat image Pro, with the PS plugin so I can do this on my 16-bit images while I edit them.

What do people think, am I being a perfectionist, or do others see noise (that shows up when sharpening) in ISO200?

Eric
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Old Apr 24, 2004, 5:56 PM   #2
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I personally see no noise with the 300D until ISO 400. It also greatly depends *how* you are sharpening your images. Using default Pshop unsharp masks above 75% I see "noise" at ISO 100.. Have you tried using other software apps or custom sharpening actions? Granted I am using the 300D but the internals are nearly identical.
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Old Apr 24, 2004, 11:44 PM   #3
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I basically only use lab sharpening (a particular use of USM), and generally with the settings A 85%, R 1, T 4 which isn't that much sharpening really.

It's only in certain places. In shadows... shadows cast over something with visible detail in it. Things like skies are usually great with very, very little noise. My subject's can't take the amount of sharpening that is required to cause the sky noise to be noticeable.

When I use ISO400 skys really show noise, but other things aren't as bad.

But at ISO200 it's even more subtle, but its there in detail in shadow areas.

Eric
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Old Apr 26, 2004, 10:41 PM   #4
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ISO 400 is my threshold for seeing noise. I use the Canon10D CSpro plugin for sharpening, instead of doing USM myself. It is actually better than Photoshop's USM, especially in the area of noise. See http://www.fredmiranda.com/10DCS/ for a description. It costs $15.00. Well worth it.

Barthold
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Old Jul 20, 2004, 7:48 AM   #5
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The noise reduction is primarily made by the Digic processor but as far as I heard sometimes it cannot decide what to do in some areas... someone saw that the hard way on some images on a 300D and I'm also a bit frightened... I really want to buy that... but, someone else say that is something about the actual settings on the camera which differs slightly between 300D and 10D, same settings, other results...
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Old Jul 20, 2004, 8:59 AM   #6
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My experience with the 10D depends on the type of shot. I find with birds (especially in flight) that noise starts about ISO 400 and, I think, has something to do with attempts to sharpen against a sky or other dissimilar background - I assume the sharpen programs have less to work with against a large sky of such similar color range, so the sharpening is out of ratio with the sharpening of feathers. I use all 3 of the programs I have to see which handles it best (i.e. getting best detail in the feathers against sky - if it was there to begin with due to movement, etc). I have PS USM, CSpro and Focal Blade. Focal Blade usually does the best with its variety of settings, especially its offering of sharpening surface area vs. edges and very adjustable settings. And, as you point out, NeatImage does a good job in these type shots (now the sky is an advantage for sampling) in removing the noise and not noticably impacting the main image.
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Old Jul 20, 2004, 9:59 AM   #7
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Eric,

Can you please post some picture as a reference. I am not seeing any noise at ISO200 but then I am not sharpening much. All I am doing right now is to use Amount 50, Threshold 2 in C1, nothing in PS coz I don't know much about PS & USM. When ever I have used USM (with resonable settings), I see noise particularly in sky.
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Old Jul 20, 2004, 10:44 AM   #8
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Hey Bobbyz -

Barthold has the right idea. I also useFred Miranda's actions.

He researches his stuff very,very well and any of his 'camera specific' actions or plug-ins work better than Photoshop stuff. His intellisharpen and noise reduction actions are worth their weight in Gold.

well worth the few bucks he charges !!
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 1:59 AM   #9
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I see noise with the Rebel above 100.
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 4:19 AM   #10
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Just did some portrait pics, and the camera was on 200ISO for some of them. I use the same lab/USM technique to sharpen, and noticed a lot of noise...I find it unacceptable and wasnt happy. I think I will buy that same bit of software Eric!!!
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