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Old Jul 27, 2004, 12:27 PM   #31
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Excuses... If Canon doesn't do it, may be Nikon, Minolta or other OEMs will: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/p...ts/doc2133.pdf :idea:
Uh huh...that's a document outlining that a Full Frame 8MP CCD is available. What's the cost?

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Old Jul 27, 2004, 12:33 PM   #32
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I don't know where the "data pumps" are (if they are in the area where the actual sensors are, are they beside it in the same silicon, or even off the sensor all together?) But I clearly remember talk about it in relation to... was it the sensor in the 1D-II? Or maybe the 2Dh? Or course, that has a different sensor design.

In the case of a CCD, they might be analog devices, but you have to read the data out of them. If you can read in parallel (read each 1/4 in linearly) you increase speed substantionally. If you can reconnect the lower 2 1/4's and upper 2 1/4's, you drop speed with basically the same sensor design.. maybe even the same fab line.

The data has to come off the photosite and go somewhere. I bet it would only add complexity to the chip to a edge that doesn't have photosites any ways. Its a question of the data traveling to exit X instead of funneling to the side of the chip and the up the side to the only exit.

If you could easily reduce the speed of the sensor (and save money at the same time) it would be a cost savings for Canon. And we know they like that!

While MP sells (so I can't see the new 10D being the same MP) I don't believe they'll switch sensor sizes, an reuse of the 1D-2's sensor would really shock me. The story has always been that the sensor is the most expensive part to build (and research?) and I believe its true. I can't see them reusing it and making the 10D-II's price point.

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Old Jul 27, 2004, 12:46 PM   #33
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While MP sells (so I can't see the new 10D being the same MP) I don't believe they'll switch sensor sizes, an reuse of the 1D-2's sensor would really shock me. The story has always been that the sensor is the most expensive part to build (and research?) and I believe its true. I can't see them reusing it and making the 10D-II's price point.
Which is why I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3D/7D. Has the 1D-2 sensor and AF, but skimps on the body (maybe not a pro-sized body, only CF card, no weatherproofing etc.). Sells for halfway between the 10D and 1D prices.

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Old Jul 27, 2004, 1:07 PM   #34
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Are we all saying the same thing then?

An EOS xxD with:
1. At least 8Mpixels
2. Priced anywhere between the 10D and a 1D mrk II

:-):-):-)
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Old Jul 27, 2004, 1:17 PM   #35
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I wouldn't say "anywhere". But closer to the $3000 mark (street price of course).

I say Photokina shows 10D mkII at $1500 or less, 3D at $3000ish and maybe a new 1Ds at wayyy more than I can even fathom spending.

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Old Jul 27, 2004, 2:08 PM   #36
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Is it MSRP or street price? :-):-):-)

Why buy the 10D mkII for $1500 when the outgoing model is $1299? Isn't this against Moore law as well... Are you supposed to get more for less? ie a` la D60/10D transformation -> This will not be an Oooh and Aaah camera then, the D70 price erosion or upcoming Minolta with IS will eat it alive. You win in this business by being an innovator/leader and not by coming out with a me too product

If you already have to spent $3000K on a body why not spend the extra and get the 1D mark II then? After all it can take any abuses and do it with speed to boot... Making another model will create customer confusion as well augmenting inventory/SKU cost.
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Old Jul 27, 2004, 5:20 PM   #37
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Well, considering the "extra" would be close to $2000, I don't see your point. B&H has the 1D Mark II at $4895, which is usually a good indication of average street price. If a 3D sold for $3000, that'd mean a difference of $1895. Hardly a small increase to justify "spending the extra" to get a 1D MkII.

Think about it. The difference would be more than 60% of a $3000 camera. Hmm...why would people buy a $22,000 Honda Accord when they could just get a $35,000 BMW? :-)

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Old Jul 27, 2004, 7:52 PM   #38
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We might be saying similar things.
If I go with the idea that there will be 2 cameras between the DRebel and the 1D-MkII, I would see it this way.

a 10D-II at $1400-1500 with 8MP , ETTL-II, Digic 2, maybe a slightly deeper buffer. Maybe a better LCD? Same noise performance? Is that enough?

A 3D with all of above but the 1D-MkII's sensor, lower noise than above, 12 deep buffer? A bit faster writing? Is that enough? At what price? I wouldn't pay $3,000 for it (but I have the 10D.)

I would argue that people would see the 10D family as being $1300 for 6MP or $1500 for 8MP, plus a few improved features that some people (like us) care about.

200 for 2MP? I don't know if people would swallow that
(I was going to say and better flash pictures, ala ETTL-II, but that won't sell if worded that way.) If they lower the price of the 10D-MkII too much, they'll absolutely kill sales of the DRebel. Maybe they expect that... in which case, ok, then they'll do it. But I can't see them killing the DRebel that quickly.

The only reason they lowered the price on the 10D (that I can see) is to flush the sales channel of all units. But they have to price it reasonably above the DRebel to protect it... or kill it too.

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Old Jul 27, 2004, 8:22 PM   #39
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The DRebel is moving down the price scale too!

... This has been the norm, always more for less and it's not going to change now. Just look at all other digicams, especially the price erosion from the 5Mpixels to 8Mpixels within the last 6 months. :lol:

The DRebel already can be bought for less than some prosumer digicams. Also take a look back at historical data from the D30 -> D60 -> 10D: Each new improved (or higher resolution) camera costed less than their previous version :?
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Old Jul 28, 2004, 11:11 AM   #40
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I'll buy it if they reduce the price of the DRebel too.

The D60 was more a reaction to the D100 (i.e. the rumors, if you believe them, was that it was pushed out early) but I agree with you on the D30 and 10D.

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