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Old Sep 27, 2004, 2:13 PM   #1
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Adobe Photo Shop now supports CR2 for the 20D with the newly released Camera Raw 2.3 also released is Adobe DNG which is a new storage system in an attemp to standardize RAW.

The Camera Raw works great with the 20D's CR2 files, and I was just getting used to Canon's Digital Photo Pro converter.
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Old Sep 27, 2004, 2:22 PM   #2
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Sorry. The Canon 20D and the forthcoming 1Ds Mk II are not yet supported in ACR 2.3.

The only new support for Canon cameras is the PowerShot S60.

Cheers,

Mitch



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Old Sep 27, 2004, 4:11 PM   #3
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True, its not supported. This means its not on the current official list of supported cameras. However, you can open the files with the new 2.3 Camera RAW Plug-in.

It ain't supported yet, means Adobe included code for the 20D in the plug-in, but hasn't had time to test that it works, so for now, its not officially supported.
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Old Sep 27, 2004, 4:18 PM   #4
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Bit of a writeup on the new DNG format.
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Old Sep 27, 2004, 5:05 PM   #5
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Also 'unofficial' support fo the 20D's raw: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=10451970
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Old Sep 27, 2004, 8:35 PM   #6
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jtacuff78 wrote:
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True, its not supported. This means its not on the current official list of supported cameras. However, you can open the files with the new 2.3 Camera RAW Plug-in.

It ain't supported yet, means Adobe included code for the 20D in the plug-in, but hasn't had time to test that it works, so for now, its not officially supported.
That is not what it means.

You can open the files in ACR II 2.3 because the .CR2 format in Canon 1D Mk II and 20D files are the same, except for a metafile tag for the camera model.

The cameras are not the same, however. Nor is their resulting data. As a consequence, you can run into issues with WB, etc.

ACR II does not use the Canon SDK for RAW conversion. It uses its own proprietary algorithms, and those algorithms depend on camera profile information that is incorpoated into the ACR II files. The profile information for the Canon 1D Mk II is simply not correct in important respects for the Canon 20D.

Adobe is well aware that the Canon 20D has hit the streets and the 1Ds Mk II will also be released in the next 45-60 days. They will likely get one of the first production 1Ds Mk II cameras so they can add support to ACR II. That's in Canon's interest as well as theirs and ours.

I suggest people not go hacking ACR II or relying on unsupported conversions. Not unless you like to go back and rework images once support is incorporated into ACR II.

Cheers,

Mitch
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Old Sep 27, 2004, 11:10 PM   #7
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Mitch, your answer depends on knowledge of Adobe's internal implementation and processes. How did you come by that knowledge? How do you know that Adobe does not interpret the metafile tag?
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 12:10 AM   #8
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Because they would have announced that the 20D is a supported camera.

Why disappoint people, if you built full support for the 20D into ACR 2.3? That would make no sense. You would announce that ACR 2.3 supports the Canon 20D in that instance.

Even if you assume they just received a 20D production camera and did not want to announce support yet,then why not wait a day or two longer and make your 20D customers happy and announce support? Why include 20D access that is less than fully than fully supported? Then you risk telling people a few days later, "Oops, we included 20D access *BUT* you customers should not have been impatient and used it, since it was an unsupported feature." That just risks alienating customers.

It is well-known that ACR II does not rely on the Canon SDK for conversion, BTW. That is not speculation.

I believe that Adobe follow sensible customer support practices, and that means you try to avoid frustrating your customers.

I have a 20D, too. I'm anxious for ACR II to support it. I just believe it is best to be patient.

Cheers,

Mitch
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 1:02 AM   #9
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Hey guys, there is an element of truth in what both of you are saying.

I've been a software engineer for 30 years so I know a tiny bit about how the software development process occurs. It is not at all uncommon for a version of a product to be released with undocumented features and support. There are many pressures on a company that dictate when it is expedient to make an official release. At that cutoff date, it is quite possible they took a snapshot of the development stream, realizing that something like 20D support is not all there and obviously didn't state that 20D support was included in the new release because they didn't want to be fielding problem reports for partially implemented features.

Now, I'm not saying that the release of products with partial undocumented support is a good thing. Normally, the development efforts I've been a part of would have made sure that the 20D raw files weren't recognized at all thus ensuring no use of the product for that purpose. But sometimes developers and their managers get lax and things get out the door that shouldn't have.

Mitch is right that you shouldn't rely on what exists in the ACR 2.3 for 20D support. The algorithms that work on 20D files may not do the raw conversions in the same manner in which a future release with official 20D support will do the conversions, leading to different conversion results now versus in the future.

OTOH, Madwand is correct that there is at least some support in ACR 2.3 for 20D raw files, whether that support is correct or not.
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 1:38 AM   #10
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geoffs wrote:
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Normally, the development efforts I've been a part of would have made sure that the 20D raw files weren't recognized at all thus ensuring no use of the product for that purpose. But sometimes developers and their managers get lax and things get out the door that shouldn't have.
Excellent point.

I think that we're in a bit of limbo here -- between supported and not supported. Adobe probably gets a few dozen emails a day less by including 20D support in ACR, but they clearly aren't ready to officially stamp it as fully supporting the 20D.
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