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Old Dec 19, 2004, 2:24 PM   #1
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I have only been using the 18-55mm lens with the camera since I got it. I immediately noticed that even at F8 and up, my images seem out of focus slightly and especially compared to my Pro 90IS. I think the PRO 90 is way over sharpening though. Anyway, so far, I just convinced myself that the cheap lens is the cause of the soft images. How can you tell for sure how sharp something should be?
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Old Dec 20, 2004, 5:18 AM   #2
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There seems to be more and more questions on this topic as more people buy the 20D. All my images taken on the 20D appear soft, almost out of focus, especially on the colour monitor on the camera. When downloaded to the computer the effect is even more noticeable, but it is not a problem with auto focus, because there is no area of the image that is sharp.I posted a question on this forum about 1 month ago, reference these soft images.

The cure is to apply sharpening. A product like Focal Blade seems to perform the best, in my opinion, better than USM in photoshop. The images then really stand out, A3+ enlargements are very good. and A4s really crisp.

I was annoyed that the reviewers of this camera did not explain this characteristic, they all aggree that the images are some of the best they have ever seen from a digital camera, failing to explain that each and every image will require work to bring an acceptable level of sharpness.
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Old Dec 20, 2004, 6:19 AM   #3
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I'm kind of finding the same thing... but being the lazy guy that I am, i simply set up a custom parameter set and increased the in-camera sharping one notch (the max)... much better now...
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Old Dec 20, 2004, 8:29 AM   #4
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Personally I think a lot of these "New Owners" are expecting the crisp photos they got from their P&S cameras. The long standing approach of the manufacturers in consumer cameras was/is to produce oversharpened images. This goes all the way back to the film "snapshot" cameras many people grew up with.

In the Pro - Semipro world the dynamics change. Larger prints just do not look right in the supersharp method. Larger prints are meant to be viewed at a different distance than the 4x6 prints that many folks are familiar with.

The "knee-jerk" response is to blame the camera or lens or both as being "too soft".

It is a simple fact that digital shooters MUST learn some post production skills. Some people used to enjoy the darkroom, others avoided it. Today EVERYONE has to learn some basic computer skills to get near the results they expect.

There just CANNOT be that many 300D,10D,20D cameras and lenses out of whack !!
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Old Dec 20, 2004, 12:48 PM   #5
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I used to think the same thing when I 1st got the 20D, but I thought it was me more than the camera that was the problem. After playing around with camerafor the last two months and PS I'm finally getting some decent shots.

This is straight out the camera




After adjusting contrast, saturation, levels and sharpening.






I use Canon 20D CSpro plugin for sharpening

http://www.fredmiranda.com/shopping/20DCSpro

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Old Dec 20, 2004, 1:10 PM   #6
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Back when I used a P&S the first thing I did was to shut off all in camera processing possible, and guess what the output looked soft until processed in my editor of choice. Then the camera gained RAW and same thing occurred, until you processed it the image straight from the camera looked soft. Mostly caused by the IRcut filter in front of the sensor I think.

On my 20D I am using RAW and after processing I do not find any sharpness problems. I did find the in-camera processed default JPGs to look softish until reprocessed in PS. So Mr_Saginaw's idea of setting a more aggressivein camera custom sharpening may work for those who don't want to spend time post processing their images. But then you get what the camera decides is right, and there is no UnDo if it is to aggressive.

Peter.

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Old Dec 20, 2004, 1:13 PM   #7
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My gut feeling is that you are correct Setiprime, when you say that we are used to the oversharp images from prosumer cameras. I think that in order to put this to rest, I will have to just buy myself a good lens. I am holding out for the Sigma 70-200 2.8 and maybe a prime lense like the Canon 50mm 1.8 I keep hearing so much about.



Thanks everyone for your comments. I have done a few side by side shot to compare my old Pro90 to my new 20D. I obviously lowered the resolution in photoshop to match the two closely. I cannot believe the difference. It is absolutely amazing! I will never recommend a consumer level camera to anybody semi-serious about photography. I have taken some pretty nice shots with my Pro90 but I think that when challenged with difficult contrasty lighting, the SLR really shines through. I will post some images shortly to show everybody my results.



Bob
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Old Dec 20, 2004, 1:49 PM   #8
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Jasper666 wrote:
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<snip> I am holding out for the Sigma 70-200 2.8 <snip>
Have the Sigma 70-210 2.8... great lens... love it....
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Old Dec 21, 2004, 11:54 AM   #9
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Jasper666- Thank heavens someone with an open mind !!

I truly believe once you are over the initial impression, that you will become a raving fan of your camera/lens combo.

What you experienced is absolutely predictable and more intense if you have had P&S for a while.

Now you are in a completely different realm with many more options opend to you. But, post processing is a skill you must learn to some degree !!



Good Shooting - Jon F.
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