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Old Dec 27, 2004, 7:25 AM   #11
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Actually the distance data is encoded on a separate wheel, and the EF-S 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 kit lens has it: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/#distancedata

... while not allring USM lenses do: my 85mm f/1.2 doesn't for example (and quite slow @ ittoo with a ring USM)



The distance info is not new,both Nikon and Minolta have used this info from their lensesa whileago,even ontheir older film cameras for flash feedback. Only last year did Canon integrate this parameter into the computation of their bodies, but the distance can be encoded regardless if the lens is ultrasonic or not! :?
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 10:08 AM   #12
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I am getting closer to figuring this all out.

I think I am going to invest into L-series lenses. I want to stay away from the EF-s type lenses for now because I am thinking of also picking up a film camera as a backup. MaybetheELAN 7N which is completely compatiable with my 580EX Flash.

I am seriously looking into the Canon 17-40 F4L and the 70-200 F4L. Everyone is telling me to go ahead a spring for the 2.8L as I will eventually WANT them later. I agree, but my budget is stretching just to get into L-series at all.

I think with these two L-series lenses and the ELAN 7N combined with Drebel instead of two Digital camera's I will have a wider set of photogrphy options. All of the above will still come out to about the same price as the 20D body alone.

What is your expience in having both a film and digital camera? Does this make sense? Is film still better quality than the 20D @ 8MP?


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Old Dec 27, 2004, 11:45 AM   #13
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minutephotos.com wrote:
Quote:
I am getting closer to figuring this all out.

I am seriously looking into the Canon 17-40 F4L and the 70-200 F4L. Everyone is telling me to go ahead a spring for the 2.8L as I will eventually WANT them later. I agree, but my budget is stretching just to get into L-series at all.


Depends... the 7-200 f/2.8 L is considerably bulkier than the F/4 ... almost a pound and a half heavier and an inch longer... that may make a difference, esp. if you don't need the f/2.8 (mostly shooting outdoors or high light, or shallow depth of field is unnecessary). I know that it makes a difference to me... you have to use the tripod collar, the 77mm diameter intimidates many subjects, it's really heavy, it doesn't fit in "average" sized camera bags, it can get really heavy in your left hand (if your triceps are out of shape like mine).... Yeah, it delivers great pics (and I'm saving pennies for the 17-40) but it's not for everyone.

Good luck (because I need it as much as you!)

~kjk


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Old Dec 27, 2004, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
if you don't need the f/2.8 (mostly shooting outdoors or high light, or shallow depth of field is unnecessary)
I do need shallow depth of field. I love the Brocay (definately spelled wrong) affect. This is my most favorite thing in taken pictures is a nice softly blurred background to make the sharp clearity of the main subject jump out. I have been able to get this with my 55-200 4.5-5.6 which I use at or past 100mm which causes a max aperture of 5.6.

Plus, I have found I hate variable apertur lenses. I wouldlove to use my lenses at 200mm F4 or less :-). However, I looked at the 70-200mm 2.8L and you are right, it is way to big a heavy for my needs. I just want L quality not neccessarily L weight.
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 9:15 PM   #15
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Greg said
"None of those three lenses you use (18-55, 55-200, 50/1. uses the RING USM motor. One of the components in the new ETTL II flash calculation is focus distance being comunicated to the system, and guess what- only lenses with RING USM can communicate that information. Micro motors don't do it- MICRO USM lenses don't even do it, so you need lenses with the RING USM motors to utilize the ETTL II system to its' fullest."
************************************************


Would you explain this "ring" USM motor thing a bit more, please? It's news to me!

I was planning to upgrade (mainly for functionality reasons) from 300D to 20D & use USM existing IS 75-300 mm tele, and also purchase new 17-80mm IS EFs that came out with 20D. (I could be satisfied with the 18-40L instead, but I value IS, and reviews are controversial over the advantage of this particular L glass).

Does the 70-300 have the ring USM? How about the 17-80; I would happily use it for flash?

If I understand you correctly, this motor issue only matters for Ettl flash & thus would not be an issue for the 300mm zoom.

Are there any non-flash issues when using these lenses on the 20D? I don't much use flash anyway.

I appreciate the helpful comments in this thread and hope you can enlarge on this a bit. Thanks!

Charlie

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Old Dec 28, 2004, 12:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Would you explain this "ring" USM motor thing a bit more, please? It's news to me!
Here is a link that will explain Ring USM.

http://www.canon.com/technology/detail/device/usm/
Quote:
(I could be satisfied with the 18-40L instead, but I value IS, and reviews are controversial over the advantage of this particular L glass).
I was thinking of upgrading to 20D also, but after doing research I have come to the conclusion that upgrading to L-series lens will probably give me more of what I am looking for "Better Quality Photos".The advantage of L-series glass, it that it is sharp throughout the whole focal range. You will probaly notice that with your 70-300 at 300 MM F5.6 your photos are not as sharp as 200 MM F8. Supposedly an L-series lens will be. I have found that the 70-200 F4L is sharper at 200 MM F4 than my 55-200 is at 200MM F8.

To me "IS" is only useful if I am shooting at low shutter speeds. I would much rater buy a faster lens than to depend on IS. I believe a true 2.8L @ 15 or above is going to be much sharper than a 5.6 IS @ below 15 handheld.

I have not done any comparison, but I bet on the 20D the 17-40 F4L will out perform the EF-s 17-80 IS 4.5-5.6. Also remember on the 20D instead of dropping the shutter speed and using the IS feature on lens you can increase the ISO up to what 3200?
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 1:33 PM   #17
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I am brand new to digital SLR photographyhaving just purchased aCanon Digital Rebel XT. I aman experienced Photoshop and Canon Powershot user and am nowlooking forward to working in RAW.I joined Steve's DigiCams today and have been amazed at the expertise out there. I look forward to visiting this site often. I don't have many observations to contribute at the moment except I agree with the comments about composition being critical to great photography. I really appreciate theURL from smjsfor the Canon learning center.
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 9:22 PM   #18
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Hmmm...funny no one suggested alternative lenses to the Canon lenses you mentioned...so I will...

Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 EX DC - less expensive than the Canon 17-40mm f4L, but it will vignette with full frame cameras. This is my favorite lens. Very fast and sharp!

Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 EX DG APO - about the same price as the Canon 70-200mm f4L...a lot cheaper than the Canon 70-200mm f2.8L. This was my first telephoto lens 'til I upgraded recently to the Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS...I wanted the "IS".

With the money you save getting these lenses instead of the Canon, sell your 300D and upgrade to the 20D. There you go...kill 2 birds with one stone. I believe there's also a $100 rebate on the 20D right now. Ofcourse if you get the Canon lenses and 20D, you qualify for the triple rebate offer (triple the value of the combined 3 rebates).


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Old Dec 15, 2005, 2:33 AM   #19
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Here is my take:

AF Speed: Would increase both with a new body or a F2.8L lens. The Better lenses have better motors thus faster and lower light lenses can gather more light to focus. On the other hand the 20D is better at focusing in "low light" that does help.

Burst rate: With a higher quality lens that you can get the shot the 1st time you dont need a high burst rate camera. On the other hand at a party a high burst rate or deep buffer may catch that extra frame that does look better because the subject is in motion stops or gets into a better position for the shot.

Flash Output: A low light lens will improve your recycle times because it doesnt have to use a full power flash to light a subject so you can reduced the power used by each flash. On the other hand the 20D enables higher ISO's letting you get more light sensitivity so you can also turn down the power on the flash a bit becuase it senses more light. Also canon offers the ext. battery pack that uses cheap AA batteries that will boost recycle times.

Im a big fan of optics over bodies, if the 20D doesnt fix the problem you still have to buy better optics to try and fix the problem and the learn how to us them where if optics dont fix the problems the extra the 20D gives you may not be enough.

I would try and rent the lenses and see the effect they have and if they help a ton buy them. but my bet baring any accident a L series lens will outlast your rebel 20D 30D and maybe even the next gen camera after that where the 20D by that time will be in a pawn shops or forgotten whiel you L series glass will still be pro gear.
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Old Dec 15, 2005, 7:14 AM   #20
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Minuteman, you have a couple of needs. From your several posts in this thread, it seems that first and foremost, you need more practice and the ability to examine your results in terms of what you could do better rather than what new gear you need to remedy the failures. Your comment about series of shots with one sharp, one blurry, one exposed correctly, one dark...suggests that the often overlooked "operator error" is the root of the problem.

Your 55-200, atits best, cannot equal the 70-200L, but as someone else suggested, an L lens is not a panacea. Poor technique remains poor even with a good lens. In one of the photo clubs to which I belong, there is a guy who consistently produces winning photos--high scoring in the competition. He shoots with a 4MP point-and-shoot with a modest zoom. His composition skills, camera control skills, and Photoshop skills allow him to produce out-of-this-world 13x19 prints month after month. The rich folk--those with more money than talent--stand around talking about their "L glass" while producing mediocre, snapshot-grade photos.

Here's a suggestion. If you don't already have the Wasia firmware "hack", find it and install it. It adds features that Canon disabled on the Rebel: FEC, ISO 3200, selectable One-shot vs AI focus, MLU, and some others. As far as I was concerned, that hack transformed the Rebel. Next, save your money, and spend time instead--time analyzing what you did wrong on your dark and OOF pictures. The Rebel is ten times better than anything the pros shot with in the 60s and 70s. The 18-55mm kit lens is quite underrated and the lamest excuse for bad results since "the dog ate my homework".

One more idea. I noticed in another post of yours in this thread you giving advice to someone else--based on your opinion! It was nice of you to not flame that off topic poster, but you really should learn a little more before you start giving advice. You did provide one excellent service, though, by answering that question: You showed those reading here how questionable advice they receive in forums like this can be!

A final note. Anyone paying attention will have noticed that Canon offers rebates on a camera shortly before it is replaced with a new model. I cautioned a couple of guys, who were eager to upgrade from their Rebels to 10D's, about a year and a half ago that they should wait. They did not, and shortly after, Canon announced the 20D. Nikon will be shipping the 10MP D200 shortly. Don't you imagine Canon has its counterready to go...just waiting to deplete its stock of 20D's in the pipeline?

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