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Old Jan 31, 2005, 10:20 AM   #11
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How does that Stroboframe Quick Flip 360 work? I'm looking at the picture. How does it attach the the camera and where does the flash attach? How does the signaling for the flash transmit from the camera through the frame? Is the idea behind the QuickFlip that you can have the flash above the camera or you can rotate it 90 degrees? If you rotate it 90 degrees to the right and rotate the camera too, then isn't the flash still off the side of the lens?
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Old Jan 31, 2005, 10:38 AM   #12
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That frame screws into the tripod socket on the camera bottom. No sync signal is transmitted through the handle you need to use an pc-xsync cord.

Yes the frame allows the quick repositioning of the flash from vertical to horizontal.

But in you case it will not help, as you are still shooting from below you subject. It won't matter how the flash is oriented, you will get the b-grade horror movie look when lighting from below.

If I were trying to shoot this,I would probably try to hang a couple of quantum packs and heads highish , maybe from something near the ceiling and use a radio remote to trigger them. But you would now have several thousand $ of lighting hanging free and away from you in a club. :?
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Old Jan 31, 2005, 11:10 AM   #13
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Okay...so I obviously can't afford to hang the quantum packs.

Now...about the Stroboframe QuickFlip 360...why do you say the light would be below the lens? It seems to me that with the camera rotated 90 degrees to the right and the flip rotated 90 degrees to the left that the flash would be above the lens but to the right of the camera. Isn't that correct? Is that the intent of a flip flash frame? My concern here is that if the light source is to the right of the camera lens, then doesn't it create shadows on the left side of the subject? I suppose one of those LumiQuest diffusers (SoftBox II or Big Bounce or something) would help with reducing shadows, right?

And where do I get that signaling cable? It doesn't come with the frame? Is it the same cable for all external flashes? Thanks...
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Old Jan 31, 2005, 11:20 AM   #14
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Sorry, I did not mean the light is below the lens:!:, I meant the light source (your flash)is coming from below the people you are trying to photograph as you are standing below them. It is this low angle that is causing you the problems.

If you could get somewhere higher, either shooting level with or from slightlyabove the stage most of your problems would be solved.

The PC-xsync cord is fairly standard, but both your camera and the flash you have need to be able to use one. The dReble I think may need a hotshoe-pc adapter(5$) or (50$ for a safesync), not sure about the flash, Itprobably need some kind of adapter as well. The METZ potato-mashers are made to use the sync cord.

Peter.



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Old Jan 31, 2005, 11:32 AM   #15
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Oh...as far as the angle I'm shooting from...that depends on the stage height. In some clubs, the stage is only like a foot off the floor but in others, it may be 4 feet above the floor. Won't the diffusers help with all that anyway? What about a way to get a warmer light on the musicians so their skin doesn't look so washed out and blue? As I said, I've had best results with setting the WB to flash but it's still an unnataural looking cast on the skin...
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Old Jan 31, 2005, 4:24 PM   #16
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... Just an idea :idea:

By the time you add the frame and the PC-sync cord - aren't you better off getting a used Metz 45CT/CL ?
This flash has two heads: 1) smaller head for direct flash and 2) more powerful head for bounce/fill. It's a handle mount flash and it can be oriented in any which way...
$200 or less - No one has ever complained about this baby (me included!): http://photosig.pcphotoreview.com/ph...2_3121crx.aspx
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Old Jan 31, 2005, 9:53 PM   #17
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I can't find the Metz 45CL-4 flash for less than $250 used. It appears to be like $500 new and it uses NiCad batteries? With the other solution, it appears I'd be looking at the Vivitar 730AF flash ($65), the Stroboframe QuickFlip 350 ($50), and the Canon EOS Dedicated TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2 ($50). So, that looks like a $165 solution. Plus, I don't see how the Metz flash allows you to rotate the flash when you rotate the camera. Am I wrong?

I actually got the 730AF today and I was a little surprised to see how simple it is. It doesn't have a PC sync port and it doesn't seem to have a lot of adjustments like the model I borrowed two weeks ago. The angle of the flash adjusts as well as rotates side to side and the diffuser extends for different focal distances (28, 35, 50, 85). There is an ISO adjustment switch that goes from 25 to 1000. When you change this switch, it shows you the available range in aperture and focal distance (in meters and feet). It also has a switch that is either LO or HI. Is that all I need in an external flash? Also, the manual says to use alkaline or NiCad. Is there any reason I can't use NiMH instead?

I also saw that I could get a right-angle bracket w/2 shoes instead of a flip and that would only cost $12.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=131401&is=REG

Is there any reason I wouldn't want to use that instead of the StroboFrame QuickFlip 350?

BTW, I got replacement 58mm UV filters for my EF-S 18-55mm and EF 100mm lenses. The Tiffen 58mm UV filters didn't fit properly so I sent them back and they sent me Hoya 58mm UV filters instead. The Hoya filters fit perfectly. I also sent back my Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 lens, which was defective, and they sent me a replacement. I'm glad to have it back!

So...let's talk about the diffusers. Which LumiQuest model do you think would work best in small dark clubs with dark ceilings and walls?

Back to some of my original questions:

Have you seen any other inexpensive (read <$400) and really bright (read <=f/2.8 ) lenses for the EOS system?

Is there anything else I can do on the camera to make the skin tones look more natural when using the flash besides setting the WB to flash? If not, how can I correct the skin tone in software with Photoshop CS or ACDSee 7.0.16?

How do I decide what aperture, shutter speed, and film speed to use when shooting with the flash? I know what I need to do without flash, but with flash, I don't know how to decide. I know that a wider aperture will give me a shallow DOF and I know that a faster shutter speed will give me less motion and I know that a slower film speed will give me less digital noise. But other than that, I haven't developed a technique yet. Sometimes I shoot with the flash on P and sometimes Av and sometimes Tv and sometimes M. So, as long as I'm using flash, what do you recommend for film speed, shutter speed, and aperture?

Thanks guys!
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Old Feb 1, 2005, 7:33 AM   #18
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YourFace wrote:
Quote:
I can't find the Metz 45CL-4 flash for less than $250 used. It appears to be like $500 new and it uses NiCad batteries? With the other solution, it appears I'd be looking at the Vivitar 730AF flash ($65), the Stroboframe QuickFlip 350 ($50), and the Canon EOS Dedicated TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2 ($50). So, that looks like a $165 solution. Plus, I don't see how the Metz flash allows you to rotate the flash when you rotate the camera. Am I wrong?
1. The CL is a current product while the CT is identical but 'discontinued' and is more 'discounted'!
2. You can't compare any flash to a Metz
3. You are getting two flashes instead of one (1 direct and 1 for shadow control)
4. You forgot to add the price of the Lumiquest (Metz primary head rotate in every direction)
5. The Metz handle pivot 90 degree depending on how you insert the quick release bracket
6. A battery insert can used instead of Nicad - I use high-current rechargeable NiMh (BTW you can also use HV power pack)

Check in profesional shops for used equipments or Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW


... Plus don't forget photography is all about 'lighting'! :idea:
One can get by with fast lenses to shoot in the worst possible condition, but a great picture always come from good 'lighting' techniques (and good composition!)
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Old Feb 1, 2005, 8:17 AM   #19
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I looked around on eBay, Amazon Marketplace, Pricegrabber.com , Shopping.com, and Froogle and I still don't see the Metz 45CT-4. I saw a few places that had it for like $500. And anyway, wouldn't I need an expensive ($70) adapter to hook it up to the hot shoe on the Digital Rebel?
http://www.adorama.com/MZ5592.html

Also, might I not still want to put on a LumiQuest on the Metz flash? The Vivitar also rotates all directions too, but I'm still going to put a LumiQuest on it to make the light source bigger. Why can't you compare any other flash to the Metz? Also, I can't tell from the pictures how the Metz would rotate 90 degrees.

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Old Feb 1, 2005, 9:37 AM   #20
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YourFace wrote:
Quote:
I looked around on eBay, Amazon Marketplace, Pricegrabber.com , Shopping.com, and Froogle and I still don't see the Metz 45CT-4. I saw a few places that had it for like $500. And anyway, wouldn't I need an expensive ($70) adapter to hook it up to the hot shoe on the Digital Rebel?
Any Hotshoe to PC-sync adapter will do: http://www.adorama.com/NKAS15.html
You can get a generic one for 1/2 as much as the Nikon


Quote:
Also, might I not still want to put on a LumiQuest on the Metz flash? The Vivitar also rotates all directions too, but I'm still going to put a LumiQuest on it to make the light source bigger.
The Metz is two heads... you still have a direct fill and a bounce :idea:


Quote:
Why can't you compare any other flash to the Metz?
There's more to it than just flash - consistency of color balance as the battery wears out and flash eveness (ie like no hot spot)...


Quote:
Also, I can't tell from the pictures how the Metz would rotate 90 degrees.
The bracket is a quick disconnect from the handle... you just slide the handle at a 90 degree angle instead of sliding it in straight! (ie it does not rotate like a clamp)
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