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Old Apr 7, 2005, 9:47 PM   #11
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I think that I would have to agree with you acrabb, that an inexperienced photographer will probably get as good or even better shots with a point and shoot than with a DSLR. Also, an experienced photographer will likely produce better shots with the kit lens than someone that is inexperienced using a pro lens.

I don't own the kit lens, but have seen some good pictures posted. Some people really know how to get the best out of almost any lens they use.

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Bob


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Old Apr 7, 2005, 10:03 PM   #12
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Thanks for the very helpful feedback everyone.

Now I'm second-guessing my decision to get an SLR at all (I am truly a complete novice). :? But that's ok....I'd rather be careful and make the best decision.

Looks like its back to the "what to buy" forum!

Thanks again, everyone.
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Old Apr 7, 2005, 10:43 PM   #13
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Hi Misty,

Some photoshops lease equipment. If you are fussing over your decision, maybe you could lease a DSLR and a P&S for a few daysto really try them out.



Bob
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Old Apr 7, 2005, 11:02 PM   #14
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Another point to think about is witth most dSLR cameras you can use higher ISOs with less noise than most P&S cameras.

dennis
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Old Apr 8, 2005, 12:17 AM   #15
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Just to chime in....I own an FZ20, and the learning curve was rather steep. And I have used pro cameras, as well as point and shoots. I found the camera to have focusing issues, it still does, but the more blurry shots you get, the more you learn (at first it was over 60%-ask around in the Panasonic forum about everyone's first pics). Now I am very happy with the camera, but it is no point and shoot. Plus the pictures are about as sharp as a spoon, even if you increase the sharpness in camera, it is something you have to get used to. Just now I am learning PS (and the unsharp mask-USM). When I bought my 20D the only thing I had to get used to was the controls, and there are so many functions it takes a while but you can learn it. And I am sure it is easier with the Drebel.

I also would look at the Olympus 770uz. The pics come out great. I bought the external flash (which you would need b/c it recycles much faster), and I took pics at a friend's wedding last year,and it came out better than the pro photographers they hired, plus it looked perfect right out of the camera. That is what I like about Olympus, you point and shoot, and your pic is perfect almost all of the time. I have seen amazing quality from the Canon p&S cameras also, but I can't verify how good its exposure system is.

But if you get the 300D and an external flash, it will most definitely focus faster and you might even be able to shoot at 3fps. I know with my 20D and the on camera flash, if I hold the shutter down I get about 1fps (shooting at ISO400) which is great, I can only imagine with the speedlights how fast the recycle time is. So if you are worried you might miss the moment, I would put my money on the 300D, if you are going to do more posed shots, then you should weigh the options and consider the point and shoots. Good luck, it ain't easy (I got 3 cameras now!)
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Old Apr 8, 2005, 4:46 AM   #16
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My point with quoting prices wasnt to say DSLRs are bad or point to L lenses. I love my DLSR, and my L lenses, but to get the same low light lens with the same range that most high end point and shoot digital cameras have. Say:
Powershot Pro1 - 28-200mm equivalent f/2.4-3.5
Sony 828 - 28-200mm F2-2.8
Coolpix 8800 - 35-350mm F - not listed

you would need at least $500-$1000 in lenses be equal to these and then you still wouldnt have the low light lenses.

I have an intresting story my dad isnt PC savvy he had a 366 celeron sence like 1998. Well I decided to buy him a PC for christmas and I looked around for the best machine and then it dawned on me this is my dad and I love him but I cant buy him top of the line my budget wont allow me to do it. so I bought him a $500 Dell package. He is still bragging about how fast it is and how it does everything he wanted his last pc to do, but was to slow to do it.

Now with me when I use it I want to cry a celeron 2400 with 256 megs of ram compared to 3.6 Ghz HT P4 with 4 gigs of ram, but he doesnt know the difference and even if he did it would never do him any good with waht he does with it now.

I think sometimes we get into a habbit of saying people need higher end stuff than they do, what would the avg consumer do with a P25 22 megapixel back for a 645 medium format body? but I bet that 95% of of us "camera geeks" if we had the means we would own it for no other reason than it was the biggest and the best even if we didnt need it. but it would do nothing but frustrate the avg user who doesnt care what it is all they want is for it to work, and get good pictures. Not worry about f stop's, ISO's, or anything else.
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Old Apr 8, 2005, 9:25 AM   #17
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Victor,

I agree entirely with everything that you have said. To match a high-end P&S for versatility you would need a few different lenses that would cost some $. On the other hand, some are just looking for a good camera to learn how to take great pictures with ... and you can do this with a good P&S like the ones you mentioned or with a DSLR with a kit lens.

So, in the end it comes down to how you see the future of your hobby going. To me, if you are going to buy a DSLR to use as a point and shoot, and never buy any more lenses than the one it came with, then you would be better off with something like a Canon G6 or a Powershot. If you need an interchangeable lens system, with a large selection of lenses for almost any aspect of photography you could imagine, then by a Canon DSLR.

Once you are into using a DSLR the camera body is as disposeable as an old PC. The shutter has a finite life, and you will may need to replace the body a few times over the life of you hobby (technology improvements, features, etc). On the other hand, you can build a collection of lenses that can beused for many years.



Bob

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Old Apr 8, 2005, 10:08 AM   #18
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Thanks everyone, for your input, and your honesty. I'm still mulling this over. I'm not the type to just jump in to a purchase. I'm such a newbie, I'm sure whatever I get will seem great compared to my Fuji 2650, lol.


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Old Apr 8, 2005, 10:47 AM   #19
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Misty -- back to your original question:

I find that in just about all my digital rebel shots, the following post-processing is almost always required:

(1) Levels (because I shoot slightly underexposed to make sure I don't "blow out" bright spots in the photo and lose detail) -- if you're not looking for perfection, this adjustment takes about 15 seconds per picture.

(2) Unsharp mask (because shots that come out of the DSLR, as noted above, are not as sharp as photos that come out of point and shoots). Once again, once you figure out the kind of "default" settings and slightly tweak, this takes about 15 seconds per picture.

(3) Cropping/rotating (because I shoot handheld a lot and don't hold the camera perfectly parallel or perpendicular to the ground). This can take a while, but it would be the same with a point and shoot, if it's something that concerns you.

(4) Color Correction/Saturation. I don't do this with every shot, but it's a fairly frequent edit. Once again, probably as often as I did with point and shoot.

The first few times are going to be slow going, but there are books and websites to help you get started. After that, I suppose you'd be spending about 15-30 more seconds per image with your dSLR than with a point and shoot.

As far as your P&S/dSLR choice, it's a tough call. dSLRs are much better at shooting in low light indoors without a flash (or even with a flash)... they're faster (there's really no "shutter lag" as there is with a P&S, they're more flexible, they're often easier to hold and frame than P&S's (where you have to look through a very small viewfinder, or try to frame the shot while looking at the LCD panel, and the light weight tends toward more camera shake). But dSLRs do allow you to make many more "mistakes" as a photographer (see acrabb's post above), and probably do not work as well in auto mode as a comparable, high quality P&S.

I guess this is my suggestion: If you're willing to WORK at learning the camera, the dSLR will be better in the long run. It will be good as your child grows and will offer the flexibility of taking lots of different pictures in different settings. Also, as technology improves, you can transfer the lenses you have from one dSLR body to another. If you merely want to take decent quality snapshots that you don't plan on enlarging or displaying, a P&S will give you the best results.


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Old Apr 8, 2005, 10:59 AM   #20
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I too am very much a newbie. I was using a P&S 3.2 mega pixel Coolpix and was always frustrated at the lack of its ability to take action shots. Outside I could do OK but inside was a lost cause.

A few weeks ago a bought a 20D really not having any idea what I was getting into. I knew I wanted great pictures and I knew a 20D could take great pictures. My first pictures were awful and I was very discouraged. But I have been practicing and I am getting better at setting the camera. This site has been a great help to me. If you really want to learn you would be surprised at how quick you can pick up on things. I am a very busy person but I am still managing to learn.

I am still very much a newbie but I think along with my desire to want to learn the camera, the capabilities of my camera, my willingness to continue to purchase more lenses, and the help from this site I am well on the way to someday being a decent photographer.

My kids are into sports and that is the main reason I chose a DSLR. One day your child will be grown and into activities as well. You only make this trip once so you might as well get what you want even if it is a few more dollars. I have already started saving for my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM zoom lens and I can't wait to get it but that is just me. In the mean time I will keep practicing with what I've got and I am really enjoying it very much.

Good luck with your choice!:-)

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