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Old May 23, 2005, 5:27 AM   #11
NHL
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peripatetic

You're forgetting the pressure from the medium format... :idea:
http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/...000CEFINAL.pdf

Theses large sizes sensors are also coming down in price fast relatively as well - Check the digital backs prices a few years ago (i.e. a luxury car $) vs their prices now which cost no more than a Canon 1Ds


BTW - Atmel, Cypress as awell as other semiconductor manufacturers also make affordable full-frame 35mm sensors...
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2005/May/1145151.htm
http://www.semiconductor.com/resourc...=8765&c=234112
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Old May 23, 2005, 11:51 AM   #12
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To predict 3-5 years into the future when it comes to electronics is pretty difficult. Of course peripatetic could be right ... I could be right ... we could both be wrong ... :lol:

All I know is that all of the camera manufacturers have to compete to keep/gain market share and keep selling products to make money for their shareholders. Gradual improvement of their product lines through new innovations and features is a must. Because of this my feeling is that any Canon DSLR 5 years from now is going to have a lot of nice improvements.



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Old May 26, 2005, 7:20 AM   #13
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I tend to agree with peripatetic on this. I don't know if the price of large sensors will stay high but I think the advantage of the large sensors over APS size will diminish - by which I mean the lower noise. The only "advantage" that will remain is the shallower depth of field. Thesmaller sensor will havethe advantage of smaller bulk and smaller cheaper lenses (for 35mm equiv) - particularly for long lenses. When the quality of the output is virtually indistinguishable, themajority of keen amateurs are going to go for the APS style sensor. The fundamental fact is that digital doesn't need as big a "recording area" as film to achieve the required quality.EF-S will be the new standard.
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Old May 26, 2005, 9:43 AM   #14
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I agree, and hope it is :!: but for alternate reasons.

Peter.

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the majority of keen amateurs are going to go for the APS style sensor. The fundamental fact is that digital doesn't need as big a "recording area" as film to achieve the required quality. EF-S will be the new standard.
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Old May 27, 2005, 1:38 AM   #15
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PeterP wrote:
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I agree, and hope it is :!: but for alternate reasons.

Peter.

Technophile wrote:
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the majority of keen amateurs are going to go for the APS style sensor. The fundamental fact is that digital doesn't need as big a "recording area" as film to achieve the required quality. EF-S will be the new standard.
That's a bit cryptic! Go on tell us, please. :-)
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Old May 27, 2005, 7:53 PM   #16
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The way I see it panning out is the full size chips will become the new medium format. APS-C will become the "pro" format and the smaller chips will remain popular with the enthusiasts. Yes the larger chips may come down a bit in price, but the general trend with all silicon is to make it smaller not larger well in the chip end of things.(implants seem to get bigger though ;-) ) I think an improved 4/3 size chip will become the enthusiast choice. I do not think it is there yet, but that is just the way I see it going.
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Old Jun 2, 2005, 2:46 AM   #17
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Well, now that Kodak isn't going to produce DSLRs anymore - who does that leave in the game with a FF35mm sensor?

Obviously the 1DsMkII - anyone know of any others?
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 9:09 AM   #18
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miatapaul wrote:
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The way I see it panning out is the full size chips will become the new medium format. APS-C will become the "pro" format and the smaller chips will remain popular with the enthusiasts. Yes the larger chips may come down a bit in price, but the general trend with all silicon is to make it smaller not larger well in the chip end of things. I think an improved 4/3 size chip will become the enthusiast choice. I do not think it is there yet, but that is just the way I see it going.
I am inclined to agree except for 4/3 becoming the enthusiast format of choice. I think both pros and enthusiasts can coexist on the APS-C format. After all, we shared the 35mm film format for a hundred years! Also, since the manufacturing and supported lens base for the 1.5-1.6 crop factor sensors is so large (and growing rapidly), I don't see Canon or Nikon jumping onto the 2x factor sensor bandwagon.

However, once Canonstarts thinking beyond the 3:2 ratio, there is potential improvement in the convenience and flexibility of cameras withEF-S lenses. Consider: Canon's 10D/20D/300D/350D sensor is approx. 22x15mm. EF-S lenses project a circular image which would give a square picture of about 18.5x18.5 (could someone check my math?) So picture a sensor that is 22x22 with a matching square viewfinder (for 18.5x18.5). Manufacturing techniques would avoid the unusable pixels in the corners of the square sensor by pattern layout to eliminate them.

Now here is the breakthrough. Press the ASPECT button to switch from portrait 15x22 to square 18.5x18.5 to landscape 22x15. Marks in the viewfinder could indicate framing. No more turning the camera to get a "vertical". Just press the Aspect button and select P, L, or S. Of course, square would maximize the possible image area. Using the current 20D pixel density, theP orL formats would be 8.2MP and the Square format would be 8.5MP. Am I just a crackpot, or does this make sense?

As to Rui's original question and followup info, I think his Minolta lenses may be at greater risk of obsolescence than anything Canon makes today. Unless Minolta and Pentax get some seriously competitive gear on the market quick, they're going to become "do you remember" DSLR brands in fairly short order. That will be a shame.
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 9:16 AM   #19
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Ithink your square sensor with button configurable aspect ratio isan excellent idea. If the camera designers could get away from this ancient SLR design based aroundfilm maybe they would come up with innovative solutions like this. I've thought for a long time that a circular sensor would be a workable idea, but square is better.
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 9:37 AM   #20
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wburychka wrote:
Quote:
miatapaul wrote:
Quote:
The way I see it panning out is the full size chips will become the new medium format. APS-C will become the "pro" format and the smaller chips will remain popular with the enthusiasts. Yes the larger chips may come down a bit in price, but the general trend with all silicon is to make it smaller not larger well in the chip end of things. I think an improved 4/3 size chip will become the enthusiast choice. I do not think it is there yet, but that is just the way I see it going.
I am inclined to agree except for 4/3 becoming the enthusiast format of choice. I think both pros and enthusiasts can coexist on the APS-C format. After all, we shared the 35mm film format for a hundred years! Also, since the manufacturing and supported lens base for the 1.5-1.6 crop factor sensors is so large (and growing rapidly), I don't see Canon or Nikon jumping onto the 2x factor sensor bandwagon.

However, once Canon starts thinking beyond the 3:2 ratio, there is potential improvement in the convenience and flexibility of cameras with EF-S lenses. Consider: Canon's 10D/20D/300D/350D sensor is approx. 22x15mm. EF-S lenses project a circular image which would give a square picture of about 18.5x18.5 (could someone check my math?) So picture a sensor that is 22x22 with a matching square viewfinder (for 18.5x18.5). Manufacturing techniques would avoid the unusable pixels in the corners of the square sensor by pattern layout to eliminate them.

Now here is the breakthrough. Press the ASPECT button to switch from portrait 15x22 to square 18.5x18.5 to landscape 22x15. Marks in the viewfinder could indicate framing. No more turning the camera to get a "vertical". Just press the Aspect button and select P, L, or S. Of course, square would maximize the possible image area. Using the current 20D pixel density, the P or L formats would be 8.2MP and the Square format would be 8.5MP. Am I just a crackpot, or does this make sense?

As to Rui's original question and followup info, I think his Minolta lenses may be at greater risk of obsolescence than anything Canon makes today. Unless Minolta and Pentax get some seriously competitive gear on the market quick, they're going to become "do you remember" DSLR brands in fairly short order. That will be a shame.
The exact same thought occured to me - then I did the rough math too and realised that the difference between 8.2 & 8.5 wasn't exactly earth-shattering.

I love square format portraits, but as most (photo) paper is rectangular I'm not sure that it would be worth the effort. Frankly I'd rather the engineers work on other things first.
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