Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Canon EOS dSLR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 30, 2005, 9:52 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 78
Default

If you buy new and then sell used, your going to take a beating, there's no way around it. I've been selling through the Re-Cycler here in California for years.

Let me amplify my experience regarding the 17-85. I was doing holiday family portraits with another photographer in 04, he was using a 28-70L and I was using my 17-85IS. Well, let's just say I got "L"fever, and decided to sell my 17-85 IS and move UP. The short version of this strory is that after buying a used 28-70L and comparing it to the 17-85 I was really disappointed so I sold the 28-70 and bought a new 24-70L. Neither was as sharp as my old 17-85 so I sold the 24-70L and went back to the guy I sold my 17-85 to and bought it back from him.

Yes, I know what your thinking, this all cost me more money than I want to admit. While I was on the "L" train I wound up buying a 17-40 and a 70-200 f.4 L both of which where great but I was never able to better the 17-85 in it's chosen focal lengths so when I bought the Rebel XT I got anotherone to go with it.

My original post was intended as a cautionary tale. I think the 17-85 IS is way underated by some people because it's an EF-S lens. (I strongly believe your going to see that change) I think Canon is able to get more quality at lower cost with the EF-S series because they don't have to stretch the optics. They can concentrate on producing quality over a smaller area. I think it's much harder to make a great fixed 2.8 lens than a variable aperture optic of the same caliber.

Keep in mind thatCanon engineerschose to use a double sided aspheric element in the 17-85 which is usually reserved forhigher end lenses.Since it's easier to make this type of element "small" I think your going to see it more and more often in less expensive lenses like the EF-S series. I've heard compaints about the cost of the 17-85 and I just smile to myself.

tonyM
tmumolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2005, 9:29 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 301
Default

It sounds like you either got a bad copy of the 24-70 or were comparing the 24-70 at f2.8 to the 17-85 at f4 (which the 17-85 would definitely be better). If both lenses were operating properly I can't see how either lens would be noticeably better resolution wise from f4 on up. In the end though both are great lenses if you get one without a defect, and it sounds like you couldn't be happier ... which is the main thing after all Plus you did something many can't achieve ... you got what you want without spending a pile of money!



Bob
BobA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2005, 9:58 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 52
Default

BobA wrote:

Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised that the 17-85 is better than the 28-70. The 28-70 is a discontinued lens and does not have the same optical quality of the 24-70.
Well I was a little suprised because you see

www.photozone.de has the 28-70 rated slightly ahead of the 24-70. Of course, that's based on user inputs. Numerous articles on the internet describe the 28-70 as one of Canon's sharpest lenses ever. The 80-200 f/2.8 L for example is a discontinued lens but is also rated higer than the current 70-200 series at www.photodo.com which does (or did) their own independent MTF testing. So a discontinued lens doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. Still suprising that the 17-85 holds its own against more expensive L glass. The 17-40 also mentioned is also rated highly at photozone and its not a discontinued model.
Humrme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2005, 11:06 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 301
Default

Humrme wrote:
Quote:
BobA wrote:


Well I was a little suprised because you see

http://www.photozone.de has the 28-70 rated slightly ahead of the 24-70. Of course, that's based on user inputs. Numerous articles on the internet describe the 28-70 as one of Canon's sharpest lenses ever. The 80-200 f/2.8 L for example is a discontinued lens but is also rated higer than the current 70-200 series at http://www.photodo.com which does (or did) their own independent MTF testing. So a discontinued lens doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. Still suprising that the 17-85 holds its own against more expensive L glass. The 17-40 also mentioned is also rated highly at photozone and its not a discontinued model.
Yup, 4.32 for the 28-70 (120 inputs) versus 4.2 for the 24-70 (14 inputs), sothe differenceis reallynot significant... and the two lenses rank 1 and 2 of all standard zooms (all 57) that users have reviewed. You've read threads/reports where the 28-70 is better, and I've read threads/reports where the 24-70 is better. Maybe this should tell us that they are both excellent, and have essentially the same optical quality.

One thing about the photozone.de survey ... it's filtered based on a "consistency check", and their claim is only 25% of the data sets are used. I'm always a bit suspicious of survey datawhen I can't seehow the information has been massaged.

Notice thatthe 17-85 isn't in the database yet,and I'd expect it to be right up there also. There is no argument that based on the MTF chart it's a very good lens.

Oh, and I agree with you completely, discontionued does not mean bad ...



Bob


BobA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2005, 1:05 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 66
Default

Canon XT is for baby's hand, and you attach a 28-300 lens the camera are terrible to hold, never the XT can be compared to the 20D except in the size, I try the XT and the camera fit very uncomfortable in my hand, I had to return and buy the 20D. but everyone have they own preferences
AMATHEU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 2005, 2:12 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 78
Default

With the vertical batt grip attached, this camera has terrific balance and feel (for me)

I personally NEVER work without a vertical grip on any of my cameras. For me this is amandatory accessary. Without the grip the XT does feel very small, but with it the balance and ergonomics are great.

Because I always use a vertical grip, even moderately compact camera's like the 20D take on considerable bulk. Canon engineers must have considered how using the V grip would influence handling with this camera and I think it's great.

PC magazine agree's. They have given this camera the editors choice designation along with it's big brother the 20D.

tony


tmumolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6, 2005, 2:22 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 155
Default

tmumolo wrote:
Quote:
The EOS XT Rebel combined with the EFS 17-85 IS zoom is in my opinion, themostimpressivecombination of ergonomics, compactness, versatility, walk around optical rangeand pure image quality of any camera lens combination I've ever used. I also own the 20D but find myself prefering the XT in almost every situation except maybe in studio ifI need a pc contact.
The XT combined with the superb 17-85 IS produces absolutey professional quality images on par with anythng I've ever used.For me , the camera lens combination with a vertical grip attached is just about as ideal aphotograpic toolas I can imagine. The balance and ergonomic feel is so good I don't want to put it down.


Hello again, Tony. In my first response to your post, I kidded you about working for Canon PR, but I admitted that I was interested in your XT comments. I also own a 20D and a Digital Rebel "Classic" w/ BG. Actually my wife and I share the two cameras--she using the 20D almost exclusively with her 500mm F4 LIS.

Well, the DR is gone and replaced with an XT. You are right about the fit and finish of the XT being really nice. I discovered very early, though, that in order to hold on to this camera securely, a BG is essential, as there is otherwise no place for my little finger. Also, the little camera is so light by itself that it will not counterbalance a 100-400LIS lens. Again, the BG is needed.

For $500 or $600 less than a 20D, this is a real bargain. Curious after it arrived, I gave it 20 minutes on the charger andrushed out to our backyard blind with the 500mm F4 and 580EX to terrorize the squirrels and doves for a few minutes. Just as with the 20D, the camera turns on instantly. After the condensation finally cleared from the 500mm (I'm in Houston), I took a few shots. One dove came so close, I didn't think the 500mm would focus. Pictures are perfectly exposed both with and without the 580EX, and the 500mm IS worked its usual magic with the XT sensor recording the image with eight megapixels of perfection.

Saturday, we went out to a nearby NWR. Since the XT has the same instant ON as the 20D, I used the same power conservation technique: Set the Auto Power Off to 1 minute and then just leave the power switch on all the time. When a picture opportunity appears, just half-press the shutter button and it is ready.

We shot some moorhens and chicks, purple gallinules, bullfrogs, butterflies, dragonflies, great egrets, snowys, green herons, a couple of gators, a circling black vulture, and ajuvenile bird we still have to identify. A scarlet tanager would not sit still for a picture or even land in sight. I didn't have the BG at the time but shot mostly with the 100-400LIS, a few with the 17-85, and a couple with the Sigma 12-24. My wife stuck with her 20D and 500mm plus 1.4xII TC.

My conclusion. Not surprisingly the image quality of the XT is every bit as good as the 20D at lower ISO settings. The 20D seems to have an edge at ISO400, especially in lower noise. I have read that at 800 and up the 20D is much lower noise than the XT, but I almost never shoot at 800 or above. The XT with a battery grip has got to be the best combination of quality, features, and price since the invention of the DSLR. I think Canon may have shot itself in the foot with this one. The 20D has too little to offer over the XT for that $500-600 difference. Tony, you are right--with the 17-85IS lens, it is indeed difficult to put this camera down. This is such a nice camera, I might even be willing to attend a local "freedom fest" or "frontier days" or ... n-a-a-a-h. Great cam, though.


Bill
Nikon F-Circa 1968, Canon 20D-Circa 2004, Canon DRebel XT-Circa 2005


wburychka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 7, 2005, 12:42 AM   #28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2
Default

I'm a new XT owner. Thank you all for your commentary! Regarding the 17-85 IS, apparently I either have a bad copy or I'm doing something wrong. At wide angle (17-28 mm)anywhere from 5-10 feet away, with or without flash, the XT seems to be focussingsomewhere in front of the target. I have 15 year old EOS lenses that do not have this problem under the same conditions.

Has anyone noticed a focussing problem with wide angle at short range?

Thanks!
WillR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2005, 8:46 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 155
Default

WillR wrote:
Quote:
I'm a new XT owner. Thank you all for your commentary! Regarding the 17-85 IS, apparently I either have a bad copy or I'm doing something wrong. At wide angle (17-28 mm)anywhere from 5-10 feet away, with or without flash, the XT seems to be focussingsomewhere in front of the target. I have 15 year old EOS lenses that do not have this problem under the same conditions.

Has anyone noticed a focussing problem with wide angle at short range?

Thanks!
I have had no such problem with the 17-85. I've used it on a 20D, Digital Rebel, and now the Rebel XT. You might try to focus on something with no possible focus target in front, like a brick wall, for example. You can focus on the vertical lines precisely. If it does not focus properly there, then you probably do have a bad lens. Bummer.

Good luck with it.

Bill
wburychka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 8, 2005, 8:57 AM   #30
Member
 
SinRastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 93
Default



I heard some XT come with that "Front focusing" problem,... be sure to test it well, if you do not know how,... ask a friend who knows something about photography, other way go back to the store and ask for a change.

SinRastro is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:53 PM.