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Old Dec 24, 2005, 9:30 PM   #11
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Jason: One thing you can be sure of: one week after you buy the 20D they will come out with a new 30D with some new feature to perk your interest.

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Old Dec 25, 2005, 7:45 AM   #12
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Then buy from a store that lets you return it in a week.

What really bugs me is when the new camera comes a month later. Then I can't return it and I've just started to "learn" the camera.

Just don't buy a camera around now. Wait until after Feb. There are major trade shows in the next few months. If you can get beyond those without an upgrade being announced, then the odds of a replacement being announced is small. Still possible, look at the Nikon D200, but small.

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Old Dec 25, 2005, 8:23 AM   #13
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If you buy a camera right after it's first available, you pay top dollar for it.

On the other hand, if you buy a model that's been out for over a year or two, it's obsolecence is that much closer at hand.

I think it's always good to wait until it released, a few reviews are available, then decide if the timing and the dollars are right.

-- Terry
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Old Dec 26, 2005, 12:08 AM   #14
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I currently shoot with a 300D and I am at the same place. Fed up with the slow speed. I have the Tamron 28-70 F2.8 , Sigma 70-200 F2.8 EX, the canon kit lens and the 50 1.8. If I had it to do all over again, I would have purchased all Canon L-series lenses. The Sigma is a very sharp lens but focuses on subject slow. The Tamron is also very sharp but does not have internal focusing which means the lens gets longer when you zoom. Canon 50 1.8 is Verry sharp, but not a zoom.

Canon 300d as backup camera or for studio work where subject are not moving is fine. For action shots like runway models the 20d is perfect. The 20d is much much faster than 300d and not much more expensive. If you are not sure why you need anything above the 20d, you probably don't need it. I.E. require full size sensor or spot metering, etc.



This shot was taken with 300D and Tamron 28-75 with Alien Bee B800 and shoot through Photogenic umbrella. Just a simple shot playing around in my apartment.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 8:48 AM   #15
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In your case, 350D would be good enough, 20D would be real nice but I would rather get 350D and better lens.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 1:26 PM   #16
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I think the 350D is a good camera for someone on a budget (like I was when I purchsed my 300D). However, you will probably upgrade lenses more often than your camera body. If you can afford it and it and itseems you can if you are even considering the 5d or 5N. Then I would definately get the 20D, the price between 20D and 350 is so minimal you will hate you didn't spend the couple extra hundred $ later.

If you get the better body now and rent your lenses until you can afford to purchase you will be better off.

Patrick


Here are samples of my work ALL shot with the 300D which I am selling to upgrade to 20D. I out grew the 300D after only one year.

http://www.onemodelplace.com/photogr...cfm?P_ID=51599
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:39 AM   #17
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Renting lens is quite expensive in our neck of the woods but then again I only want to rent 500 f4 IS.

I will still say get better quality glass first, makes a big difference. Sensor is same between 350D and 20D (personally I would buy 20D, heck even 1dMk2, if I can afford it as I mainly shoot birds and fast AF and higher fps really helps)
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 2:53 PM   #18
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You have good taste Bobbyz, I have not even used an IS lens yet. I have been thinking about getting the Canon 17-85 IS but it is a f4 - 5.6 variable aperture and I have been trying to stay away from those types of lenses.

I am also pulled between "the hype" of L-series lenses vs Sigma / Tamron.

I have heard the 350D is much better than the 300D but I did not know it was using the same sensor as 20D. It is definately a much smaller camera than both and thats can be useful.

Good luck in your decision nsane, let us know what you decide.



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Old Jan 5, 2006, 1:45 PM   #19
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Not sure why folks say the 20D is made for wildlife. The 1.6 factor is only a crop and it does not magnify the lens. i.e. a 400mm does not turn into a 640mm lens.IT is a 400mm with the sides of the framecropped compared to a full frame.Less in the frame, no magnification. The 5D has a brighter view finder which is great for low light and has12.8 mgp so the imagehas higher resolution. :?
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Old Jan 5, 2006, 5:53 PM   #20
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Tucker97,
The 20D *is* really good for wildlife and sports photography in several ways. The sensor crop does make a difference. Here is why:

(Note that I'm going to have to do these calculations using pixels and not photosites. Because of this, this information isn't as accurate as it could be. But I believe it will still be valid to make my point.)
The 5D's sensor is 36mm x 24mm
The 20D's sensor is 22.7mm x 15.1mm

The 5D's sensor produces an image this big: 4368 x 2912
The 20D's sensor produces an image this big:
3504 x 2336

Therefor the cameras have this many pixes per mm:
5D (121 1/3 pixels per mm) x
(121 1/3 pixels per mm)
20D (154.4 pixels per mm) x (154.7 pixels per mm)

So the 20D produces more pixels per milimeter of sensor. I believe thes same calculation holds for photosites, the 20D has more photosites per milimeter. Therefor more photosites are capturing the image in the 20D, than with the 5D when cropped down to the same framing of the 20D.

To get the same framing of the image between the 5D and the 20D, I need to take the center 60% of the 5D's image. If I did that, I would only get an image that was 2620.8 x 1747.2. That size an image will certainly *NOT* have the same amount of detail visible in it compared to the same image taken with
3504 x 2336 pixels.

The 5D is better at some things (many things) but it absolutely DOES NOT resolve more detail for the same image framing as the 20D.

For example:
The 20D shoots more frames per second. This can be important (but not always.)
The 20D's RAW buffer is lower (6 vs. 17) which gives the advantage to the 5D.

I would trade the "crop factor" for a deeper buffer? No. Does the 6-picture deep buffer cost me images? Yes, some times it does. But only about 1% of the time. But a lower "crop" factor means I can't print my images as large. I always want more reach with wildlife photography. In the 3 years that I've been photographing birds and wild animals (10,000+ frames easily) I can cound on one hand the number of times I've said "I wish I had less reach".

I participate on some "professional" photography forums as well as this one. Everyone who switches from the 20D to the 1D MkII (and the N) complain about the loss of the 30% crop factor between those cameras. They love the better AF and other things, but the always miss the larger crop factor.

I would love the brighter view finder of the 5D, but I want it on a sensor with the 20D's size.

Eric
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