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Old Feb 21, 2006, 2:28 PM   #1
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Against the grain somewhat here...

Everyone is moaning about how disappointing the 30D is. I think they are absolutely daft.

The 30D is a slightly better CAMERA in every respect than the 20D with a whole range of features that photographers (rather than pixel-peepers) will appreciate.

I applaud their decision to stick with the same "digital film" when they couldn't actually improve on it. Here's the thing - the digital film is a combination of the sensor and the processor. Canon's mk3 digital processor obviously isn't ready yet, so instead of increasing the number of pixels at the expense of increased noise, which would have been an inevitable consequence, they decided to improve the camera and leave the "film" alone until they had a better processor.

In the pre-announcement threads I said I would like more resolution, but not if it came at the expense of a lost ISO stop. Canon figured that most photographers would agree.

The 20D is already the affordable king for action and low light work with better high-ISO performance than all the competition, and they decided to make the 30D just as good in low light but give it a deeper buffer, so improving on a camera which already the best around.

Photographers' features added:
1. ISO viewable in the viewfinder, so it's now easy to change ISO without taking the camera from your eye.
2. Improvements in the post-shot display.
3. Better modes giving the photographer more control, including no in camera sharpening modes for JPG shooting, and a colour-fidelity mode, I think this is very impressive - for photographers that is, pixel peepers will likely be bemused.
4. 50% deeper buffer, 9 RAW shots v 6.
5. Better battery life to offset the larger LCD.
6. A better LCD.
7. Spot metering.

As far as I can see the only concession to the marketing department is to put a silly print button on it, as with the 5D.

Bravo Canon. You certainly have won my respect in an area where it would have been so easy to pander to the crowd!


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Old Feb 21, 2006, 4:37 PM   #2
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How about the new lens 17-55 F2.8 + IS to this I say bravo ,I was thinking of getting the sigma 18-50 F2.8 or the 17-85IS from canon, but nowI will have to wait for this one. thinking of upgrading my rebel xt to the 30D ..........this is good news .
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Old Feb 21, 2006, 4:58 PM   #3
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Hi peripatetic,

I agree with you a lot.While the 30D is not a surprising upgrade to me, it is NOT a disappointing one.Beforethe announcement I had THOUGHT that Canon would increase megapixels, but as Ialready wrote in my posts earlier 21st Feb about the 30D, I'm gladCanon realised how important low noise levels are many serious photographers. (and keeping dynamic range reasonably good also)

Yes, like you I think the R&D department cautiously, and wisely realised the time for an upgraded CMOS sensor wasn't to be yet... and stuck with the same sensor. So I expect the next upgrade (we can assume 40D) will most likely have improvements in terms of lowernoise AND I expect higher megapixels.

As I had expected they kept the DigicII processor.And the 1.6 crop factor (of course with same sensor). Some improvements are definitely worthy (e.g. ISO changing, better LCD, deeper buffer, etc). Other changes are not so important IMHO (e.g. spot metering, +10% battery life). But these things can be very personal / subjective.

Peri, I think you'll find the stated continuous shooting buffer limit with RAW in the 30D is 11 frames @ 5fps, the 9 you quoted is for "RAW + JPEG mode", so that's even better!)

I had expected more improvements in the 30D, but I agree that Canon have done a good job keeping a solid, well performing sensor and camera, and upgrading it. We wait for the 40D in August 2007 I guess.... Maybe my next camera?

Paul
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Old Feb 21, 2006, 5:07 PM   #4
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Hi ht770,

I also agree with you that it's good that Canon put together a 17-55mm f2.8 EF-S lens, and interestingly also peripatetic and myself had previously posted our hopes for good new lenses..

But it's an expensive one retailing at around US$1149 I guess I won't be getting it at that price, though I'm sure it is a good lens and will be useful for many folk!

Paul


PS I'm just curious why they didn't call / label it as an "L" lens? It's got the same "gold line" ('consumer grade?') around it as the 28-135mm (my lens) and 17-85mm lenses..
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Old Feb 21, 2006, 5:55 PM   #5
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peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
The 30D is a slightly better CAMERA in every respect than the 20D with a whole range of features that photographers (rather than pixel-peepers) will appreciate.
May be 30D is a great camera. How is the flash system which goes with it? My Nikon friends are telling me that I shouldbuy D200 intstead becauseNikon flash system is much easier to use, better meteringand has more features. What is lacking in Canon's flash system and why is it not as good as Nikon's?
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Old Feb 21, 2006, 10:51 PM   #6
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Paul wrote:

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PS I'm just curious why they didn't call / label it as an "L" lens? It's got the same "gold line" ('consumer grade?') around it as the 28-135mm (my lens) and 17-85mm lenses..
Maybe Canon have simply decided never to put 'L's on EF-S lenses. At least they are actually describing this lens as 'L' quality- e.g. see this press release by Canon HK: http://www.canon.com.hk/Download.asp...mp;file_type=1

As a current user of a 300D who has been debating whether to go 350D or 20D for a while, the new 30D gets my vote - I enjoy shooting wildlife so appreciate the crop factor combined with my 70-300 DO IS. I've wanted to move to shooting RAW for a while now but its quite painfully slow on the 300D. The 30D looks like an upgrade that will last me for many years.Waiting another 6-12 months for a10% increase in pixels in each direction doesn't seem to be a good use of my time - I'd rather be shooting more pictures and enjoying the results.Thank you Canon.
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Old Feb 22, 2006, 12:50 AM   #7
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I will be Pre-ordering one Wednesday. I am quite pleased with the upgrades, but I Really was expecting the camera to be 10mp. I still plan on keeping my 300D & maybe later on(who knows) I may wind up with an S3 IS - it least it isn't Silver. Too bad I have to invest in a couple of SD cards though.


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Old Feb 22, 2006, 1:20 AM   #8
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I've been anxiously awaiting the announcement and arrival of the 20D replacement. Like others, I wa hoping for maybe a 10 MP sensor but I am not upset that it didn't happen because they hopefully kept the same image quality. I have been using a Digital Rebel (300D) and we were waiting to see if we would upgrade to a 20D, 5D or what is now the 30D. After reading what there is to be read on the 30D I think we will go for that one. Besides being a bit faster, there are a few other features that I look forward to. (spot meter, start-up time, the little 30D badge on teh front). If I already had a 20D I don't think I would switch to this one, but since I have a Rebel, the switch will be a big one.

Dave Porter
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Old Feb 22, 2006, 3:34 AM   #9
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I very much agree. There are some very good photographer updates to this camera. One I am pleasently surprised at the shutter upgrade. Not something you notice in the image or use, but a nice touch. Happy with the spot meter, larger monitor, viewfinder ISO as well as 1/3 ISO stops, (though I probably won't use that too much), the different recovery modes are also a nice touch. I really like the idea that you can set it to rotate the image in the computer only. I can see it larger in the camera monitor and still have it rotated in my pc. I think it now has everything that I would want in a good digital camera. I am not real thrilled with my Digital Rebel. It is very unreliable with flash exposure, and I am trying to use it for weddings and portraits. At some point, probably another 2 years, I will have to invest in this camera. Lou
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Old Feb 22, 2006, 5:01 AM   #10
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harana wrote:
Quote:
peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
The 30D is a slightly better CAMERA in every respect than the 20D with a whole range of features that photographers (rather than pixel-peepers) will appreciate.
May be 30D is a great camera. How is the flash system which goes with it? My Nikon friends are telling me that I shouldbuy D200 intstead becauseNikon flash system is much easier to use, better meteringand has more features. What is lacking in Canon's flash system and why is it not as good as Nikon's?
Every camera system has its good sides and bad side the question isnt what camera body you like it is what camera system fits your needs best today and in the future.

As for what was said about the 30D I agree 100% Nikon showed that a 6.1mp camera can still hang with the best of them so why rush when your 2 steps ahead with low light/ low noise photography at a much higher resolutions and make a mistake that tarnishes your reputation
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