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Old Apr 9, 2006, 7:03 PM   #1
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Canon Digital Rebel 300D : shutter curtain vane jammed

What is it going to cost to get this repaired? Experiences, prices and tips, please!

I used to be a foreign car mechanic. We'd see things "like this" that were the result of manufacturing design "choices." The only way that a guided vane can get sideways is by "twisting and flapping." That suggests the design choice behind rivot-hinges is simply wrong. Or the hinges are still good and the vane material itself has fatigued (doesn't look like it to me).

Did Canon simply use the shutter from a film camera in a digital camera? The cost of film and processing limits the number of shutter clicks in a film camera (on average). Not so in a digital camera. I'm limited only by the cost of my DVD burner and new blanks ($0.15 each).

In a typical one day photo trip, I'd shoot a minimum of 10 GBs of frames with a typical JPG size of 2.5 MB for 4000 shots per day trip. I'd estimate I easily make 40 trips with that camera. That's at least 150,000 snaps.

Why would I pay $1000 to use a camera only for 40 days use!!!

Steve of Steve's Digicams: In your review of the XT Digital Rebel, did you ask Canon what they did to increase the life of their shutter assembly?



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Old Apr 9, 2006, 7:16 PM   #2
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SteveModena wrote:
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In a typical one day photo trip, I'd shoot a minimum of 10 GBs of frames with a typical JPG size of 2.5 MB for 4000 shots per day trip. I'd estimate I easily make 40 trips with that camera. That's at least 150,000 snaps.

Why would I pay $1000 to use a camera only for 40 days use!!!

Steve of Steve's Digicams: In your review of the XT Digital Rebel, did you ask Canon what they did to increase the life of their shutter assembly?
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that you shot 150,000 images in 40 days?

On Canon's most expensive Professional Camera, the EOS-1Ds Mark II (street price of approximately $7,000), the shutter life is tested to 200,000 actuations. The model it replaced (the EOS-1Ds, which was Canon's flagship model) was only tested to 150,000 actuations. They improved shutter life in the new model.

Yet, you're complaining when the shutter in an entry level model failed after the same number of actuations?

If you got that many shutter actuations from Canon's lowest priced DSLR, I'd say congratulations. I wouldn't have expected it to last anywhere near that number of actuations. It's not designed for that kind of use.

SteveModena wrote:
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What is it going to cost to get this repaired? Experiences, prices and tips, please!
I've seen users reporting anywhere from $180 to $360, depending on what they need to replace.

But, again, this is an entry level model. You can't expect to get that many actuations from one. You were very lucky to get that many (so, don't expect a repaired camera to last anywhere near that long again).

You probably set a record for shutter actuations on a Rebel.

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Old Apr 9, 2006, 10:03 PM   #3
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SteveModena wrote:
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Steve of Steve's Digicams: In your review of the XT Digital Rebel, did you ask Canon what they did to increase the life of their shutter assembly?


Steve, I echo what JimC has said. 150,000 shutter actuations is a good lifetime number for a pro level dSLR but is not expected from a sub$1000 camera. Count your blessings and buy a new one - you got your money's worth already
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 11:47 PM   #4
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One way to look at things is "tradition" and another is practical cost.

I should "feel lucky" because my shutter is made just the way it was in 1950?

Do you remember the first PC hard drives? Do you recall the mean time to failure? Typically a fewthousand hours. Here is the standard today:
[*]SATA 1.0 drives support speeds up to 10,000 rpm and mean time between failure (MTBF) levels up to 1 million hours under an eight-hour, low-duty cycle. Fiber Channel (FC) drives support up to 15,000 rpm and an MTBF of 1.4 million hours under a 24-hour duty cycle. [/*]
This Digital Rebelshutter does not employ continuous lubrication (that's tradition, not cost or lack of available technology). Things wear out when they are not *lubricated*. My shutter vanes wore out by design, not cost.

Somebody in Japan irately shouts: 150,000 EXCEEDS **tradition** and those barbarian buyers SHOULD FEEL LUCKY! :^)

Steve: Please ask the Canon engineers what it would "cost" to build a shutter curtain mechanismfor 1,500,000actuations (10x the *generous* over-allowance now alloted to the "entry level" dSLR).


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Old Apr 10, 2006, 3:24 AM   #5
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SteveModena,

I totally agree with JimC and Steve (of Steve's Digicams), you've had your money's worth. If you shoot 4000 photos a day, a quick calculation for an 8 hour "shoot day trip" means you take 500 photos an hour, or one photo every7 seconds. 40 days of this type of shooting means you either are very trigger happy or using it professionally (and expect returns / money back). Anyway the time and effort to save and process that amount of images is pretty mind-boggling!

You shouldn't complain that at 150,000 shutter cycles something failed (though yes I'm sure somehow Canon, and other DSLR manufacturers) can make shutters lasting longer. But maybe a much higher cost which isn't going to win sales for them. I've never seen anyone else argue "it's not fair" after even 100,000 shutter cycles.

Why do you ask Steve (of Steve's digicams) to ask Canon the cost of a super-duper 1.5 million shutter cycle system? Ask them yourself (Steve doesn't work for Canon). But my advice would be for you to better use your time (practise your shooting, minimise your shots if possible) and get a new entry-level DSLR (which you can get for less than $1000 nowadays) and be satisfied.

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Old Apr 10, 2006, 6:45 AM   #6
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pj1974 wrote:
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...If you shoot 4000 photos a day, a quick calculation for an 8 hour "shoot day trip" means you take 500 photos an hour, or one photo every7 seconds. 40 days of this type of shooting means you either are very trigger happy......the time and effort to save and process that amount of images is pretty mind-boggling!

You shouldn't complain that at 150,000 shutter cycles something failed ....

...But my advice would be for you to better use your time (practise your shooting, minimise your shots if possible) ....
Paul
"Trigger happy..."

I am visiting each of the 100 counties of North Carolina (check the map for the size of the state). In each county I search out the State-erected highway historic markers (somethimes quite an adventure).I GPS and photo them and the surroundings. I have a fairly set pattern for "posing" the signs themselves. The surroundings are on a case-by-case...some on country roads, other down town,...

There are about 1400 markers in all to visit. Isn't that what cameras are for? Having fun and getting away from work?:blah:

"Trigger happy..."

Most of the day is spent driving and searching...typical trip may be 350 miles to 500 total miles. On the road before dawn, returningafter dark, some signs shot with time exposuresin the illuminnation of passing headlights after Midnight.

"Trigger happy..."

Every press of the shutter release is held down for four shots...in hopes of getting one "perfect." Exposure bracketing, handheld in failing light, high winds, imperfect camera focusing...I can not afford to "go back" to a sign that "didn't come out."

Yes indeed, 100s of shots per sign and location.

"Trigger happy..."

I advised the state archivist that if you spend 8 hours on the road, count on another 8 hours to page through the shots to enter the annotations from memory and from the voice recorder...and to cull.

"Trigger happy..."

In the countryside peoplestop to ask if I'm stranded (they don't notice the camera); in some cities I have been threatened by drug dealers and pimps....in old "historic neighborhoods."

"Trigger happy..."

My hobby camera has to do heavy duty work for historic enlightenment... The price of gasoline is now the highcost determinant...

"Trigger happy..."

Steve-Digicams may take 100shots witheach camera...or maybe 1000. Steveacknowledges receiving some pre-production models...and evaluates ethically to all parties.

WHO BETTER TO ASK WHAT THE "COST" of a 1,500,000 snap shutter? That is a CONSUMER question. The webpages may serve the interests of the manufactures, but the audience is *heterogeneously* the CONSUMERS.

And yes, I agree, if people spend $1,000 to take 1,000 pictures and otherwise keep the camera in the closet, that is their consumer choice.

Hey Steve: if you had to keep changing ISPs every 150,000 "visits" to your webpages, how would you feel? :?

Let's me say it again for all you aspiring dilitante artists: 150,000 snaps and then broken...that's outrageous. :!:

Still I am asking: does anyone have direct experience with cost of shutter replacement in this model camera?
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 8:19 AM   #7
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SteveModena wrote:
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Let's me say it again for all you aspiring dilitante artists: 150,000 snaps and then broken...that's outrageous. :!:
Steve:

Actually, that's unheard of (getting that many shutter actuations from an entry level DSLR). Again, you probably set a record on shutter actuations. I would have considered myself to be lucky if I had gotten over 50,000 actuations, much less 3 times that.

Most people don't use a camera that heavily. This is a consumer grade camera for amateurs. It's designed for the same type of consumer buying the film Rebel models, not someone using a camera professionally.

Canon has advanced Amateur Bodies and Professional Bodies with better build quality designed for heavier use.

The new Canon EOS-30D has improved shutter life over the Canon EOS-20D (which is designed for be a more robust model compared to your Rebel).

The *improved* shutter for the new Canon EOS-30D is designed for 100,000 actuations (still 50,000 less than you put on your Rebel). The new EOS-5D is also designed for 100,000 actuations.

Want more than 100,000? You need to move up into a Professional Grade Body (the 1 series bodies are Canon's professional grade bodies).

These Pro bodies (EOS-1D Mark II N and EOS-1Ds Mark II) are now tested to 200,000 actuations.

You can't compare film bodies with digital bodies from a cost perspective yet. R&D is simply too high, along with the cost of producing the sensors and specialized chips to process image data that fast. Why do you think companies like Konica Minolta have exited the digital camera business? They couldn't afford to compete. Even Kodak exited the DSLR market.

Costs are coming down. But, if you want to use a camera that heavily, you need to move up from the cheapest DSLR body ever made at the time of it's introduction, into something more robust.

Think of what it would have cost you to process the film for 150,000 images. You got a real bargain if you got 150,000 images from a $1000 camera without a failure. That's as many actuations as some of the Pro bodies were designed for, until very recently.

Quote:
Still I am asking: does anyone have direct experience with cost of shutter replacement in this model camera?
I found one user that had a Digital Rebel shutter replaced for $180 by Canon in California. Another claimed Canon in NJ charged twice that amount.


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Old Apr 10, 2006, 9:05 AM   #8
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Just one tip:

Get a video camera as a replacement. What you're doing has nothing in common with photograpy. :G


Geesh, i thought that i took a lot of pictures. bou what you do is just plain silly.

BTW what do you photograph most?
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 9:59 AM   #9
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It's only outrageous if Canon claimed better performance. Considering that they claim far less than you actually managed it seems pretty good to me.

If you divide the 150,000 actuations into the price you paid for the camera what is your cost per shot?

I'd be willing to guess that 50,000 actuations is enough for 99.9% of all Rebel owners. I reckon my 20D will last me around 10 years before the shutter packs up. Of course I don't really expect to keep it that long, but I'm fairly sure I would want the 5D I'll be getting to replace it sometime to last me for 10 years.

And I'm also willing to bet that although YOU may be outraged, most people reading this thread are thinking your experience is a pretty good advertisement for Canon products.
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 11:21 AM   #10
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SteveModena,

Well I don't mean to get into any argument with you. Sorry if you were offended by the term "trigger happy" I used. I'd classify myself as "trigger happy" sometimes. So no offence meant. Maybe this is the Australian in me, that doesn'tmean offence and such a phrase ismost often meant as a light joke.

At the same time I did write in my original post "trigger happy OR using it professionally". I think it's quite fair and safe to say that if a particular person makes 4000 photos in a day's shooting (and has 40 such days) then he / she could fall into one of (or both of) the afore-mentioned categories.:blah:

It seems your hobby (for historical enlightenment) has its costs, but as you said gasoline is a big cost. I think you're getting the message from all the people who have also replied here that you should consider yourself lucky (and satisfied) for obtaining so many photos for a $1,000 camera.

I was also considering as JimC said, imagine if you had to pay for the processing of 150,000 photos by film? That way your $1000 camera has got you a very low cost per photo basis (as Peripatetic also highlighted... by the way, great to see you back Peri... I was missing you on the forum!).

SteveModena, I use my Canon 350D / XT (the replacement model to yours) on average for about 2,000 photos per month. I'm not at all an "aspiring dilitante artist". But I think I'll be very thankful if my camera lasts me 2 years of this type of shooting. Take into account the advice others have given: a Pro body MIGHT give you slightly more "mileage" or maybe you should use a video camera.

Again, as Peripatetic wrote, I think 99.9% of DSLR owners are seeing your 150,000 actuations as avertising of good quality rather than bad! :idea:

Paul
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