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Old Jul 27, 2002, 4:39 AM   #11
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you can go over all the tech specs you want. the fact of the matter is the Microdrives have in real world use a considerably higher failure rate than a non moving part CF component. your an engineer, i'm a technician you design for optimized performance. i troubleshoot and repair these types of items. i have never seen a microdrive put into a mission critical situation due to it's history for less than optimal lifespan/operation. i consider all my pictures "mission critical". you have been graced with one that works beautifully. cherish it. but yours is 1 in thousands. do the math. you say it has only two moving parts. what also has been introduced to support those parts? by what factor has the possible failure probability been raised with these components both mechanical and electronic introduced. you know and i know that if you let a component like a HD run steady state doing its job it will virtually last for an extremely long time. turn it off and on continuously spool it down to save power your going to smoke it sooner rather than later. thats operational shock. i run into it every working day. it pays my bills. introducing operating "variables" will add to the possible causes of failure. as they develop it, it will get more reliable. this is only generation 2.

KISS usually works better in the long run

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[Edited on 7-27-2002 by sjms]

[Edited on 7-27-2002 by sjms]
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Old Jul 27, 2002, 5:24 AM   #12
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sjms

I have posted many times, and I have never questioned the reliability of solid state CF flash over the microdrive. It's a trade off between cost vs reliability, and for some people it works rather well, but one can not blindly say that's its going to fail beside flash also has a guaranteed failure after so many cycles. Yes, datasheets on flash says 100,000's cycles or more (but look-up block erase... and try to understand how they operate, and certain section like the 1st block will die sooner). The fact of the matter is, flash is always the highest failure device in an electronic assembly in high volume consumer electronics manufacture. Just ask for any manufacturing report and it's always on top, and if one do a failure analysis on a board even before it's manufactured per BellCore specs it ranks up there with mechanical connectors (ie lowest MTBF rate of all the electronics...)

Remember a horse carriage or a sled is also more reliable than a car since it has less moving parts (and you don't even have to spin the engine up and down...), but which one will you rather use?

[Edited on 7-27-2002 by NHL]
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Old Jul 27, 2002, 8:40 AM   #13
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flash is the highest failure rate today not just because of volume. it is because now we have a lot of no name mfgrs in the world (ie HK, Taiwan. China) subverting the spec and producing substandard garbage with minimal controls at a cheap prices which everyone seems to buy because of price.

don't get me wrong. i love a good deal. but if theres trouble i want someone to be accountable duing the warranty period. most reputable CF Manufacturers carry lifetime on their products such as lexar delkin sandisk and others (yes even ridata if purchased thru an authorized dealer.

the warranty is the badge of confidence the manufacturer has on the product they produce. all af my cards will be replaced free on failure short of being snapped in half. it seems the ibm warranty comes up a little short. i believe it is 1 year where as my 3 u160 HD are at least 5 yrs. shows a lot of confidence doesn't it.

i buy a product that is back by the manufacturer.

a lot of this no name stuff has no proper branding for followup.

remember, there is no free lunch.
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Old Jul 27, 2002, 10:27 AM   #14
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I'll do a FAQ on flash soon, but see here for a preview:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forum/vi...d.php?tid=1376
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Old Jul 27, 2002, 9:52 PM   #15
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"The fact of the matter is, flash is always the highest failure device in an electronic assembly in high volume consumer electronics manufacture."

is this refering to CF Cards or flash mem as a whole? we must stay within the boundries of the cf card industry.
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Old Jul 28, 2002, 12:55 PM   #16
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I'm talking about the 'good' kinds (ie Intel/AMD/ST Micro/Infineon etc...). The CF type is already built-in with failures from the factory:
http://www.stevesforums.com/forum/vi...d=5446#pid5446

[Edited on 7-28-2002 by NHL]
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Old Jul 28, 2002, 5:29 PM   #17
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i would like to stay in the bounds of the CF card industry and the microdrive for use in consumer end user goods. i would prefer it to stay within the bounds of photography. used in cameras. raw flash memory is not the issue. go out side these issues skews everything. why? because flash memory is produced on a scale so large vs microdrives. if i were to take them on that merit. of course the microdrive would look great. scale is everything. there are probably 500 cf cards in use for every 10-15 MDs. and i'm being conservative. lets try a level playing field.
what about the defects on a disk drive out of the factory? they mapped and excluded correct?

[Edited on 7-28-2002 by sjms]

[Edited on 7-28-2002 by sjms]
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Old Jul 29, 2002, 5:39 AM   #18
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While I don't dispute your numbers, one must also realize that CF flashes have been around much longer, even before the very first camera.

The microdrive appears on the scene only 2 years ago to solve one problem and one problem only that one starts seeing only now, the 5Mp and above. People with 2Mp camera (the majority), and even with my old 990 wouldn't even think about owning a microdrive; However as we move into the next generation and we can see it happening now and you can't argue with this: people who owns dSLR are all tempted to get one, yes even the non dSLR fans like us D7/5000/5700. It meets a need for a reasonable cost especially in raw. It's a trade off between cost and reliability that everyone make, and even though a lot of photographers own more flash cards than microdrives, myself included (both SM & CF), once you have used one, there's no going back!

MonsieurMS and I actually bought our 2nd 1G over CF cards... and we rather save our money for the next camera that would need the microdrive even more! (ie. the 256Mb that used to be plentiful on my 990 is pretty puny on the D7!).
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Old Sep 11, 2002, 1:19 AM   #19
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Anyone tried B&H's "General Brand" 1GB Microdrive? At $280 it seems to be the lowest priced drive available.
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