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Old Jul 19, 2006, 3:42 PM   #1
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You know, the more I think about the dSLR world, the more I get annoyed with the marketplace it's in. Everyone knows that Canon and Nikon are head to head at the top, dispite the other companies implementing their own unique and interesting twists, namely:

-olympus can frame shots with the LCD and all weather proofed (as in dont have to spend +3000 for a weather proofed body like canon).
-sony having the in body antishake, dynamic lighting compensation, prefocusing mech, can support minolta lenses, their own lenses, and carl zeiss.

But I doubt Canon and Nikon could hardly care more. Both have a vast collection of lenses to choose from and they've been in the market for a while. Everyone knows them.

What's more, If a person already invested a camera body and (more importantly), lenses and flashes, it's not likely that they'll switch over to a whole new camera body and get a whole new set of lenses.

I, for example, am very interested in the sony alpha. Not the 100 series specifically, but just the general camera. I would be very very interested to try it out. But I have 3 expensive lenses for an EF mount and a speedlite for canon bodies! That cost quite a bit. And it annoys me that I'm "locked" in with Canon that like. The only thing I can say to myself is, "Well, maybe the CCD sensor on the alpha will have worser ISO performance". But what happens if it's not?

I doubt Canon will implement IS into the body, or have some kind of anti dust technology on the sensor, or be able to frame a shot through the LCD screen, or provide water proofed bodies for their cheaper products. Why? They don't have to. They still have customers... customers that have been locked in from investing so much... and customers that always hear the "legendary" Canon or Nikon and professionals backing up those companies. Hopefully, the latter customers will shrink enough for Canon to implement some nifty features in their future models.

It's been 14 months since I've had my xt and I have learned a lot about cameras and photography. But what I think the p&s consumer should be aware of is the consequences of getting a dSLR- and that the more you invest, the more you dig yourself in a hole.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 4:40 PM   #2
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:-)

I hear what you're saying, but this is exactly why Sony is your new best friend. Canon and Nikon will only do something when they HAVE TO. And, don't be fooled - much of Canon's future profit lies in people who don't yet own DSLRs. There's a huge market of digicam owners who as prices for DSLRs get down to $500 are starting to jump into the DSLR world. So, if Sony or Olympus or whoever can 'trap' those people then Canon will start to lose market share. So, don't fall into the trap of hoping other camera systems fail - hope they succeed. Every success on their part foces Canon to drop prices and release functionality at a faster pace. I hope the Sony Alpha sells like hotcakes - I hope they reach their goal of 25% market share - I hope they scare the crap out of Canon. And they just might - all BECAUSE of all those digicam owners that are making the move into DSLRs.

The problem is - you have to be a little more long-sighted. If you've invested in good lenses then sometime in the next year Canon will be releasing new DSLRs which will invariably trump what others are doing or get close for a lower price. So, rejoice every time you read about the next camera coming out from a competitor that's better than what Canon is offering. Believe me, Canon will not sit idly by and allow that to continue. They've invested a lot of R&D money in professional grade lenses and cameras and I'm sure they are well aware they need to keep bringing new sheep into the fold by having entry level and mid level cameras that are just as good as the competition.

The bottom line here is I can't see Canon & Nikon throwing in the towel. The risk, IMO is with some other systems - if they can't capture marketshare they'll eventually fold - they won't be able to keep manufacturing costs down enough to stayprofitable. So, I like the idea of being a Canon owner right now - Sony is going to push Canon to inovate and reduce costs and I get to reap the rewards and not have to worry about Canon not making it in the DSLR business. I just hope Sony makes it and sticks around - a 3 man or 4 man race is better for everyone in the longrun.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 6:09 PM   #3
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Welcome to Business 101.

Why don't you sell your three lenses and flash on eBay? Canon lenses and flashes retain their value so it works both ways.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 10:25 PM   #4
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I tend to agree with JohnG, the folks who are already in the"hole" are not going to switch, and so are the diehards fans who will be looking down on anything not Canon or Nikon...

The people who'll convert to Sony (or Oly) are the P&S value buyers - granted the dSLR price can be discounted to as much as $500, but folks who'll be buying thees bodies are not going to be paying for IS lenses which can cost as many times as much!
-> Right off the bat all their lenses will have IS including the kit lens - and then add all the excellent 3rd party lenses especially long zooms

It'll be interesting to see what Canon will come up with the next XT

This is business 101 (fill in the blank): :-)
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 11:11 PM   #5
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Funny how you mentioned the price for IS in lenses. Sony's 70-200 f/2.8 pro varient costs around the same as the Canon's 70-200 f/2.8 IS ... At least in canada anyway... I find that very interesting... maybe IS doesn't cost as much as people think it does :shock: ... Either that, or the macro feature on the sony lens cost a lot to implement....

But I guess all that's left is to tell anyone who's interested in the dSLR realm to avoid canon so they'll be forced to add cool features.
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Old Jul 20, 2006, 6:38 AM   #6
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BoYFrMSpC wrote:
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Funny how you mentioned the price for IS in lenses. Sony's 70-200 f/2.8 pro varient costs around the same as the Canon's 70-200 f/2.8 IS ...
Can't wait to see how they'll price their Carl Zeiss! :-) :lol: :G

BTW that Minolta 70-200 f/2.8 SSM was always priced higher than the Canon's - It was (and still is) an exeptional lens especially in the 'bokeh' department (also in WHITE) as are all theig 'G' series, the Minolta's 'L' equivalent: http://www.marcuskarlsen.com/PhotoBa...00_f28_SSM.htm
"That makes it 79 out of 100 total and that is the best score by a 70-200mm f/2.8, 3 points ahead of the Nikon AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 G IF ED and 4 points ahead of the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM"

The anti-shake now comes from the camera - They updated their entire line in 1 swoop of the body :idea:
-> They now have more IS lenses selection than anyone!!!
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Old Jul 20, 2006, 12:45 PM   #7
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Justin Hancock wrote:
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Welcome to Business 101.

Why don't you sell your three lenses and flash on eBay? Canon lenses and flashes retain their value so it works both ways.
Well said. I can use my $1000 canon glass for more than a yr and still sell it at close to $900. That's cheap rental if you think about it. Can't do it with others mfg.
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Old Jul 20, 2006, 12:49 PM   #8
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Don't compare body prices alone. Compare the whole systems. Sure you can have IS in the body but look at sony lenses. the suggested prices are way higher than top of the class canon IS lenses. And I have yet to see any one in the field using superteles with these bodies with built in IS. Would be nice to see shots at say 1000mm 9without taking crop ina ccount) at say <1/100sec.
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Old Jul 20, 2006, 4:10 PM   #9
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bobbyz wrote:
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Don't compare body prices alone. Compare the whole systems. Sure you can have IS in the body but look at sony lenses. the suggested prices are way higher than top of the class canon IS lenses. And I have yet to see any one in the field using superteles with these bodies with built in IS. Would be nice to see shots at say 1000mm 9without taking crop ina ccount) at say <1/100sec.
Two excellent points. There is much debate in forums on how effective an in-body solution can be with a longer lens. And, keep in mind, this technology only works on this size sensor. IF (big if here) Sony wants a full frame sesnor I do not believe the same solution will work (but I could be wrong).

Still - I stand by my original comments. I hope it does work. Any market share sony can steal from Canon puts the pressure on Canon to inovate - which benefits me as a Canon owner. So I don't consider myself a Canon snob - I don't want Sony to fail I want them to succeed. Look at all the advancements in the last 5 years in digicams - that happened because everyone and their brother was making them. So, R&D had to be faster, innovations higher and it kept profit margins down. DSLR market hasn't been that way. With Pentax, Olympus and Sony in the mix now we can hopefully continue to see that trend continue in the DSLR market. Along the same lines, I want to see Sigma, Tamron and other 3rd party lens manufacturers succeed. The more market share they steal the more Canon and Nikon have to push to make better lenses at a more affordable price. Look at Nikon's new 18-200 VR lens - that's a pretty darn good lens. Who knows - maybe if the 3rd party folks do well I'll actually get a case and lens hood with every Canon lens I buy in the future


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Old Jul 21, 2006, 6:43 AM   #10
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JohnG wrote:
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Who knows - maybe if the 3rd party folks do well I'll actually get a case and lens hood with every Canon lens I buy in the future
... and I agree too

Why would anyone think Sony should price their lens cheaper than Canon, especially if they are equal or exceed them in optical quality? Does Nikon? Aren't you suppose to pay premium for the 'brand' name? Isn't that usually what all thoses advertising cost are for (which you pay for)? Businees 101 - look at the retail industry for specialty brand

Think about it a customer who is already in the 'hole' or a person who is captive by the L will never get a Sony, Pentax or Oly. Same thing with a Sony dSLR buyer who just move up from the P&S: They will never put that kind of a money on a camera 'system', but the needs are always there which is where the 3rd parties come in for the value buyers:

All with IS built-into the body Sony (or Pentax) including the standard kit lens:
o Sigma 10-20mm exceed the EF 10-22mm at a fraction of the cost and no IS
o Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 also excellent at a fraction of the EF 17-55 f.2.8
o The lowly 50mm f/1.4 or 1.7 with antishake that no one else have
o Sigma 150mm f/2.8 macro - Ooops Canon don't have any IS macro either
o Sigma 100-300 f/4 EX probably the sharpest (even with 1.4x teleconverter)
o and the: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=17372369


-> Remember too Sony don't make any lens, Zeiss makes them and the 'transfered asset' from Minolta - Any profit here from branding is just pure cream!

As to lenses which do not hold value - I would like to see if anyone can find a 'bargain' Sigma 120-300 f/2.8EX (or other 3rd party premium lenses) on the used market I know lots of folks who would like to get one. What I do see on Ebay however is plenty of EF 75-300 or others Canon junky that do not hold value at all...
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