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Old Apr 14, 2010, 12:47 PM   #21
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My question for the OP is, how short is the current 85mm when shooting the gymnastic. A sample shot would help allot in determine the best range for a lens currently.

The 85 is good for about 25 feet give or take, so you are working close.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 12:51 PM   #22
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... trading the F4 for a 70-200 F2.8. ...
That seems to indicate to me that keeping the 70-200/4.0 and getting something else, is out of the question. Therefore, trading in the 70-200/4.0 on a 70-200/2.8 is the best option for now, and getting a 1.4X TC for when the soccer field gets bigger, is the best option for later.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 12:51 PM   #23
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So a 135 will give about 40-45ft and 150 will give about 50-55 feet. But a sample photo would help out more. We are just all guess for now.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 12:53 PM   #24
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shoturtle - as usual I'll be blunt. You don't shoot sports and you don't know what you're talking about. Mark and I both shoot gymnastics and we both shoot soccer. The 85mm 1.8 has a working range of about 25 feet. It's use for gymnastics requires that you can move from aparatus to aparatus. Without floor access you are restricted to how close you can get. How close depends on where the event takes place.

Mark and I, who both shoot gymnastics, have said that based upon our first hand experience the OP will likely need every bit of 200mm.

Why are you arguing a case when you have no experience to contribute? You're arguing for the sake of arguing and it's wasting space. Go out and actually shoot some gymnastics and then come back and see if your opinions have changed based on actually doing something instead of just knowing other photographers that do it.

As usual your sports advice is wrong and ill-informed. Mostly because you have no experience in what you're talking about.

If you can find another sports shooter that disagrees with the advice Mark and I are providing I think the OP (as well as mark and i) could benefit from hearing from them.

Now, it's a public forum. And you can continue to waste the OPs time and your own talking about subjects outside your area of knowledge. Your call.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 12:53 PM   #25
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my issues with the trade is that the 2.8 is much heavier and I love the F4 for most things. Long term the F4 will end up getting traded or added to for something longer (120-300?). FYI the body is a T2i
That is what we all need also consider. The concern about the weight.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 1:17 PM   #26
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My concern with the 2.8 is that in this gym to get 1/400 or better on the F4 required ISO 3200 and in one area 6400. The 2.8 might get me down to 1600 or with IS maybe I would be at 800 (but IS???). as for distance I am 25 feet out at best and in the worst cases 100-120. Wieght is a smaller issue. If I go for the 2.8 I will have to trade the F4 to keep peace.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 1:22 PM   #27
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My concern with the 2.8 is that in this gym to get 1/400 or better on the F4 required ISO 3200 and in one area 6400. The 2.8 might get me down to 1600 or with IS maybe I would be at 800 (but IS???). as for distance I am 25 feet out at best and in the worst cases 100-120. Wieght is a smaller issue. If I go for the 2.8 I will have to trade the F4 to keep peace.
Honestly and unfortunately these are the ISOs we have to work with. If I want to get close to freezing a tumble then I need to be using f1.8 or f2 and ISO 6400.

With your camera don't be afraid to use the higher ISOs, yes they look noisy if you get into pixel peeping, but it's better than motion blur. Also with some sensibly used noise removal software then you can make the results turn out OK. Don't forget that currently you are not shooting very high speed action with the age of your daughter so that helps too. I have shot some gymnastics at 1/250s but at these times I will only be capturing holds and balances.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 1:27 PM   #28
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The 70-200mm IS USM is about 1700 new, you may want to see if you can track down a canon refreb that can drop it down to 1500.

The 70-200mm IS USM MKII is brand new, you will not really fine a deal on it, it is going for 2500 at all the big shops.

But with your concern, if the f4 is used for other photographic needs, the 2.8 may not be as well suited for that do to the added size and weight.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 1:48 PM   #29
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Just to add, for sports I wouldn't bother with the IS version you won't get any benefit from it as your shutter speed should always be above where you would want IS. I have the IS version but IS is switched off for sports, I only got it as I shoot weddings as well.
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Old Apr 14, 2010, 1:52 PM   #30
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For sports, you want fast shutter speeds to avoid motion blur due to subject movement. If you use fast shutter speeds, you don't need to worry about motion blur due to camera shake. So image stabilization isn't important. Save your money and get the non-IS model.
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