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Old Nov 22, 2004, 10:08 PM   #1
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I am planning to buyCanon EOS20D. I have Panasonic FZ10 which has 12x optical zoom about 420mm.

I will have 3 kind of usages. KidsSoccer photography.

Indoor family shots in low light kind of rooms.

Landscape.

What kind of zoom range will be needed. I at times feel that even 420mm equvalent of my FZ10 is not sufficent but realize that larger zoom lenses are very expensive. So will built a lens line over aperiod of time.

My understanding is that for a good photo a good quality lens is more important then the camera at times. Lenses last longer then the camera. With these in mind is it worth it to start slow and invest in canon lenses or lenses with other manufacturers like sigma etc are equivalent or perhapsbetter quality.

What these numbers mean Like EF_s. What kind of lenses are for digital canoncamera as i dont have other slr i would only want to buy lenses specific for digital camera until and unless they are v expensive and older lenses are as good or better


I am also not v clear about the zoom mutiplication number with respect to sensor size.

How does this impact the scene do you still get the same scene but at higher magnificationthat you see through view finder or a smaller central portion of what you see as the sensor size is smaller the the negative size for which originally the lens were made for. Just concerned that edgesof the scene may not fall on the sensor and hence not captured. Sounds like a dumb question but i just dont understand it.

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aghauri


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Old Nov 22, 2004, 10:52 PM   #2
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What do you expect the EOS 20D to do that your current camera won't? If you're happy with what you have, stick with it.

Having said that, I just bought a 20D and really love the camera because:

1. Fast focus

2. No shutter lag

3. Clean pictures at high ISO numbers so I can get great shots without flash

4. Fast time between shots... how about 5 frames per second up to 20+ shots

5. Flexibility of lenses to do the job... whatever job I want to do

To get the kind of reach your camera has is going to cost you when you move to the 20D. A quality lens that will get out to 420mm isn't going to be cheap, especially one that will be fast enough to catch soccer action. The other side is that once you have paid your dues and bought the lens(es) needed, they'll carry forward to the next generation camera. The "S" in "EOS" means "System". The 20D is more than just a camera, it's part of a photograpic system that just happens to be digital.

The 1.6 factor means that the 20D crops the image to that level, simply because the area of the camera's sensor is smaller (by a factor of 1.6) than a 35mm film frame. The camera industry has (for the most part) accepted the 35mm as the standard for lenses. This means that the 20D treats a 100mm lens built for a 35mm camera as if it were a 160mm lens. Good news, and bad news. If you want long reach, it's great. When shooting wide angle, the 1.6 crop factor is a disadvantage.

Lenses aren't cheap (even not-so-good ones). It's not unusual for a lens alone to cost more than your current camera. In fact, it's no problem finding lenses that cost more than my EOS 20D.

I still have only one lens, the EFS 17-85IS. This lens does a good job for me. It's not the last one I'll own. Some folks claim to hate this lens... others like it. It's a good "walk around" lens, but sells for $500+.

The time to buy a DSLR is when you're interested in doing photography instead of just taking pictures. It's a new world.
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 9:28 AM   #3
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Wildman wrote:
Quote:
What do you expect the EOS 20D to do that your current camera won't? If you're happy with what you have, stick with it.

Having said that, I just bought a 20D and really love the camera because:

1. Fast focus

2. No shutter lag

3. Clean pictures at high ISO numbers so I can get great shots without flash

4. Fast time between shots... how about 5 frames per second up to 20+ shots

5. Flexibility of lenses to do the job... whatever job I want to do

I think these are the main reasons, i want to go to EOS20D. The real question is about the lenses. i dont want to go cheap and buy a poor quality lens and negate the purpose of buying 20D. But cant buy v expensive lenses either.

That's why i need to know and understand thes canon lenses better b4 i make a purchase.

Thanks
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 9:51 AM   #4
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Aghauri, being careful before you purchase is very prudent. I own a 20D and have had some anguish because I believe it is not focusing as sharply as it should be. I may be sending it to a Canon service center soon.

My advice is to look at the lenses before you purchase but even more importantly, think long and hard about purchasing over the internet. I say this because the difference in price between buying locally versus from an internet shop is only a few percentage points on an item as expensive as the 20D. Get the camera from a local shop where you can test it out before you actually purchase it. Make sure the camera is focusing properly and test it with several lenses in the store. Perhaps you will avoid the problems that I and apparently many others are coping with now.

Good luck in your purchasing...
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 10:44 AM   #5
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HI,

also don't only think Canon when buying lenses for the 20D.

Highquality lenses are also available fromthe Sigma EX HSM, and Tamron XR Di lines. Tokina as well. These tend to be much less expensive than the equivalent Canon or Nikon name branded lens.

Sigma has the HSM(Hyper sonic motor) on some of their lenses, equivalent to the Canon USM(ultra sonic motor). I believe theTamron's so far only have a standard focus motor.

The 20D is a pretty impressive camera, mine arrived home yesterday, lot of pacing waiting for its battery to charge up for the first time. :-):-):-)
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 11:26 AM   #6
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PeterP is right, don't rule out 3rd party lenses. Personally, I would only go with Sigma... but that is because I value fast focusing lenses. I hate it when a tool gets in the way of what I need to do.

You are very right to consider how you use your current camera as a guide to what you need in the future. That is exactly how it should be done.

Sigma makes a good 100-300mm lens, I believe. I don't remember the cost, but that would get you out over 400mm. That should fit your soccer needs, except for really close up shots.

Another thing to consider is a 70-200mm lens and use a teleconverter to give you more reach. It might be cheaper and lenses in that area are usually good quality. The downside is if you need the extra reach quickly you won't have it 'cause you'd have to stop to put on the teleconverter.

For the indoor family shots you don't have a lot of choices. If you have flexability to "zoom with your feet" (i.e. move yourself) the 50mm f1.8 is a good low-light lens. And it's very cheap for a lens ($60 or so) and optically it's good (plastic build, but for $60 what do you expect?) The other answer is to get a good flash and maybe a softbox to defuse the light (reduces shadows.)

For landscapes you don't have many choices. The one I like best is the 17-40 f4L. It is optically a very good lens, but it isn't cheap. I believe that Sigma just came out with some good lenses that are just as wide (or maybe wider) but I can't comment on their quality.

Does that help?
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 7:02 PM   #7
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Thanks for the replies. It does help and raises more questions.

First one Lense made bysigmaare as good or better as canon does. I understand that they cant be same and buying sigma for the same price may get me a faster lens, but where do i find a reliable info or someone has a personal recommendation. Also there are too many lenses are out there for me to research.

So far if i would go for 17-40 lens it will give me 27- 64 range which i think is pretty good. What does L means at the end of the lens.

Then i suppose a low light lens like 50mm seem a good affordable idea.

Then i a thinking about 18-85 kind of general purpose range to beon most of timeand 100-300mm range.

So has any one has good recommendatios and sources to read about in thes ranges or any othe suggestions of mixed range.

I keep on ranting about properiety lenses because i am just concerned that a cheap lens may spoil the purpose of buying an expensive camera.

I dont have to buy all of these at once, may be 18-85 and 100-300.

I can wait.

aghauri

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Old Nov 23, 2004, 11:15 PM   #8
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The "L" designation means it's the top of Canon's line. This generally means it has a higher build quality, it might be water proof (not too useful with a non-waterproof camera, but not something to sneeze at) they usually have a lower f-stop (larger max aperture), have more multi-coated lens elements... just all around a better lens. But you pay for those better things.

The reality is that for most people they don't need L lenses. If you were to buy a "good" lens, and you aren't trying to make big prints (larger than 8 1/2 by 11 without cropping the picture) then you can get away without it. But some times there is no choice. For example, with sports shots you need the highest shutter speed you can get. To get that, you will need the largest aperture (smallest f-stop.) And let's not forget fast focusing. That usually means an L lens.

These are the places where I got for lens info:
http://www.photozone.de/bindex2.html
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/

With that first one, choose the make of camera and go from there. They are rated by optical quality, with other info as well.

I do agree with you that getting either the wrong lens or a cheap lens can spoil your fun. You should take this research seriously... we don't mind your questions.

Eric

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Old Nov 24, 2004, 1:25 AM   #9
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Good questions aghauri, and you seem to be on the right track with them.

In another thread, I've tried to explain the crop factor effects. Rather than try to repeat it here, please see that thread instead:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...197800#p197800

Another key point to understand is that perspective is not a function of the focal length, but is a function of the subject to camera distance. A wide-angle lens allows you to have much greater distance range among subjects in the same image, thereby showing perspective effects.

Very often, flash pictures will simply look better than non-flash pictures -- for colour and sharpness andsubject clarity. This is a good alternative to going the low-light route -- use a flash, and use it well! Well means trying to avoid harsh light and shadows and red-eye (unless you want that stuff, of course). Bouncing the flash off the ceiling is an easy way to do this and get natural-light effects. Get a nice tilt & swivel flash, and you can have this simple and effective technique available to you. What this won't do is to give you nice side-lighting / highlights / 3-d shading. You'll have to use different techniques (e.g. off-camera flash / multiple light sources) for that.

There are some advanced flashes like the Metz 54 that have dual heads, so you can bounce one and directly light with another..

DSLR's also have good high ISO capability, so it is conceivable to lose a stop or so in the lens and get a usable image, esp. if you use post-processed noise reduction. This can also be handy for action shots.

The 17-40 L is a nice lens, and it can fill the all-around role by itself most of the time. To that, I've added only a 50 (sadly not used that much), and a 70-200 f/4.0 L, and a 1.4x TC. When you get into the 200+ mm range, of course you need to consider camera shake. You can get by with handholding, esp. with high ISO/shutter speed, but a tripod will help make sharper images.

Note also that for subject motion, you need faster shutter speeds for sharpness. Note also that the short duration of flashes "freeze" subject motion.

In the Canon world full-frame cameras are the highest end, and are still fully supported. That means that Canon must make its highest end lenses support full frame. This means that excellent non-cropped format lenses are and will be available. This means that the EF-S, "cropped format" lenses are not the best lenses. But they can be more cost-effective on "cropped format" cameras.

Newer zoom lenses are very good, esp. the "L" series.

The Canon 400 f/5.6 L is a very sharp and relatively affordable long lens. But you'd lose auto-focus and too much light if you added a tele-converter to it (unless you had a high-end camera that could auto-focus at f/8 such as the EOS 3 film camera.)

The 20D has high pixel density for a DSLR; if you have a nice sharp image, then you can crop the image further and thereby "zoom in" more.

Image stability is a useful feature, and you might find a 200 or 300 f/2.8 IS lens is a good choice. Note that for distance shots, that often you work at a fixed maximum magnification. You could then trade-off zoom for lighter / sharper / cheaper / brighter / image stability / etc.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 9:12 AM   #10
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Aghauri -

Forty paragraphs of great advice.

Heres mine. Buy the 70/200 in the best version you can find. Shoot a few hundred shots. THEN you will know what your next lens is. You've got all winter to learn.

Now it's forty one paragraphs.
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