Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Canon Lenses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 17, 2006, 2:12 PM   #11
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

Ctrack wrote:
Quote:
What is the quality of the teleconverter?You introduced extra glass between the lens and the sensor.

The lens looks pretty good considering the use of a teleconverter.
I believe wsandman1 uses a Sigma 1.4x TC
According to Photozone actual tested MTF's:

Canon EF 100-400L: f/5.6 f/8 f/11
400mm Center 1488 1549 1508
400mm Border 1489 1539 1512

Sigma 100-300 f4EX: f/5.6 f/8 f/11
300mm w/1.4 Center 1655,5 1750 1631,5
300mm w/1.4 Border 1507 1587 1510

-> So yes @ wide opened the L is a little bit softer than the 100-300 EX with TC!
"The lens was capable to deliver absolutely excellent resolution figures in the MTF lab easily comparable to fix focals in the respective range. At 100mm it even scratches the sensor limits of the EOS 350D. At 200mm and 300mm the center resolution is already excellent at wide-open aperture whereas the borders remain in very good territory. Very impressive!"
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 12:43 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
bobbyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,423
Default

Aside from all the things mentioen so far, alot depends on whether you shoot in jpeg or RAW. And if RAW, which converter you use? There are different default sharpenings under ACR, C1 and RSP. I think you need to disable all sharpening (in camera and in pp) to compare correctly.

Here are some shots from my 100-400L on tripod. All shot in RAW, no sharpening in C1 LE, 100% crops.

Don't worry about prime being softer, these were done on my 10D. prime is much sharper than the zoom on my 30D.







These are at 400mm. Apply USM to these and my copy of 100-400 rocks. Don't believe too much in the MTF hype. There are differences between theoritical plots and real life shots. And AF on that Sigma 80-400 OS is slow.

BTW - quality control of both canon and sigma can be a problem where users ends up with a soft copy of the lens.


bobbyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 1:58 PM   #13
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

bobbyz wrote:
Quote:
Don't believe too much in the MTF hype. There are differences between theoritical plots and real life shots...
Agree 100% - However the MTF's results from Photozone are not theoretical plots (like from Canon's), but theses are actual summary from real lens samples using IMATEST.

-> i.e. independent party measuring the various manufacturers under identical real-life condition.
I have the 100-400L too, but let's be fair... Kudo to Sigma (Remember the Canon is an older lens designed many generation ago...)




Quote:
Don't worry about prime being softer, these were done on my 10D. prime is much sharper than the zoom on my 30D.
Again the results on Photozone correlates with your finding - The EF-400L is indeed sharper than the 100-400L:
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...0_56/index.htm

-> but then the Sigma 100-300 F/4 EX is indeed a prime in IQ from its similar results to the EF-400L (with the 1.4x):
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...00_4/index.htm
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 4:23 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
bobbyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,423
Default

NHL wrote: [quote]bobbyz wrote:
Quote:
Don't believe too much in the MTF hype. There are differences between theoritical plots and real life shots...
Agree 100% - However the MTF's results from Photozone are not theoretical plots (like from Canon's), but theses are actual summary from real lens samples using NHL wrote:
Quote:
-> but then the Sigma 100-300 F/4 EX is indeed a prime in IQ from its similar results to the EF-400L (with the 1.4x):
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...00_4/index.htm
Yes, but I can stick a 1.4xTC on my 400mm f5.6 prime and get very good quality 560mm f8 lens. I did some test and I couldn't find any image quality difference. 100-400 zomm is a different matter and not good for converters.
bobbyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 4:58 PM   #15
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

bobbyz wrote:
Quote:
Yes, but I can stick a 1.4xTC on my 400mm f5.6 prime and get very good quality 560mm f8 lens. I did some test and I couldn't find any image quality difference. 100-400 zomm is a different matter and not good for converters.
You're refering to the 100-400L which I agree (again according to the MTF's results) - I guess Photozone didn't test the 100-300 f/4 with a 2x TC on because it won't AF with a 30D (like the 400 f/5.6 prime with a 1.4x), but that would make a nice 200-600mm f/8

-> I already know what a 120-300 f/2.8 can do with a 2x, the 100-300 is all the more better @ it judging from its excellent performance @ 300mm - Just got to try it on my 1D mrkII then which can focus to f/8! :-)
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 5:01 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
AlpineMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 357
Default

Am not totally sold on the Sigma 80-400mm OS, the link that NHL provided also said on the bottom of the review:



Verdict
The Sigma AF 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 EX OS is an impressive piece of equipment. In terms of build quality Sigma seems to have catched up with the genuine brand offerings. Nonetheless the lens didn't convince completely. In the lab the sheer quality figures are surely good enough with slightly better MTF results than the Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 USM L IS but in the field the OS didn't really feel as reassuring or mature (or I had too much coffee at the time ...). The rather odd shutter delay issue when shooting several images in a row didn't help either to lift the impression. It's interesting that Sigma managed to implement FTM (full-time manual focusing) combined with a conventional AF motor - this is certainly something that we'd like to see in other lenses as well. On the downside the AF is a little on the slow and noisy side. All-in-all the lens should go though a little extra fine-tuning.


FM user reviews also state that the Sigma has noticeable slower auto focus than the Canon 100-400mm IS. My concern is the shutter delay when in "machine gun" mode.
AlpineMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 5:08 PM   #17
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

AlpineMan

That's the 80-400mm OS archille heels, the 100-300 f/4 EX has HSM
-> My 120-300 f/2.8 EX which has HSM also is extremely fast!




Quote:
My concern is the shutter delay when in "machine gun" mode.
In AI servo mode there's a fixed time out to AF - i.e. the camera will fire anyway (even with Canon's micro USM lenses) regardless of the AF to meet the burst rate... Try any lens in complete darkness (-> the camera will fire away regardless)
On a 1D mrkII you can overide this through the C.Fn-21 :idea:
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 5:27 PM   #18
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,529
Default

Just to add - the lack of HSM or USM is probably going to be more impactive in the initial focus lock rather than the subsequent shots in servo burst mode - i.e. the focus mechanism doesn't have far to move. So it's the initial acquisition of your target where you'll really feel the hurt. You can help this along by pre-focusing (which is not always possible).

As NHL indicated - you're always going to lose speed in servo mode - the camera has to 'DO SOMETHING' and that something takes time - so wheras a camera may have a stated 5 fps burst mode - you may only see 4 fps when in servo mode. You won't see any faster in one shot with a moving target though - the camera must still re-focus. Those burst mode figures are for non-moving targets where no refocus is needed.
JohnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 5:59 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
AlpineMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 357
Default

NHL wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
My concern is the shutter delay when in "machine gun" mode.
In AI servo mode there's a fixed time out to AF - i.e. the camera will fire anyway (even with Canon's micro USM lenses) regardless of the AF to meet the burst rate... Try any lens in complete darkness (-> the camera will fire away regardless)
On a 1D mrkII you can overide this through the C.Fn-21 :idea:
Isn't the delay that the article was referring to the result of the OS on the Sigmadrawing too much power from the body and not because of focus mode chosen?


AlpineMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 7:55 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
squirl033's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,720
Default

Don't know if my perspective will add much to this discussion, since i don't have a lot of links to various data sites,but since i've been using the EX 80-400 lens for the last several months, i do have some experience with it.

1. the OScan bea bit disconcerting. at times it the image seems to 'clunk' in the viewfinder as the lens adjusts. doesn't seem to have any effect on the image quality.

2. AF is slow/noisy... okay, it's all relative. what's slow, and does the difference in AF speed between the Sigma and a lens with USM really matter in the field? from what i've seen, no. initial focus acquisition might be marginally slower than the Canon, but from my experience, it's fast enough (unless you're changing focus from one end of the range to the other), and from what i've heard, the Sigma doesn't lose focus lock as easily as the Canon in AI servo. in a nutshell, for what i need the lens to do, the AF speed is fine, and the noise simply isn't a concern... a soft whirring sound, nothing more. having the full-time manual focus can be handy, too, especially when you need to change focus fast from close in to far away... just crank the ring around as you bring the camera up, and the AF lockson almost instantly when you press the shutter.

3. lens sharpness - the EX 80-400 is outstanding in this regard. i've had absolutely marvelous results with this lens, provided i do my part. i'd put it up against the 100-400L any day.

4. shutter delay in burst mode? once in a while, the camera will seem to hesitate between shots, but i don't believethis has anything to do with the lens... my 30D does the same thing with my Tamron SP 24-135 as well. i've used the Sigma in "machine gun" mode on many occasions, with no problems at all.

my overall impression of the Sigma lens is that it's solid andwell made, very sharp, and performs just as i expected it to.... and at a price $400 less than the 100-400L.
squirl033 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:27 AM.