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Old Aug 10, 2008, 2:19 PM   #1
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I have a Lumix DMC8 (I think) point and shooter with the Leica lens. Had it since 2004...good little camera, but too automatic, too much shutter lag, can't really adjust enough, for my tastes. Have a Pentax K10D DSLR, which I'm very happy with. Excellent pictures, I'm amazed at what this camera's capability is.

I have been thinking of the Canon G9 because:
  • Small, easy to carry as a everyday, everywhere camera...my K10D is great, but it's a heavy, large beast like most DSLR's to carry around everywhere, everyday...
    [/*]
  • Looks to be a camera that I make all the manual settings if I wish, or use automatic-reminds me of the old Leica 35...I have an old Leica 11f that I used to carry around in the 35 mm days..which I would like to return to...[/*]
  • tried it at a camera store, saw the pictures I took, only on the small lcd screen of the G9[/*]
My question is the Canon G9 picture capability. How does it picture making ability compare to a top DSLR ? I like tack sharp, great colour?

What is the shutter lag like...almost non-existent or like my Lumix...enough to lose shots?

Weaknesses....strengths?

Should I wait for a G10 or G11 ?

I read the G9 review.
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Old Aug 10, 2008, 2:31 PM   #2
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Most discussions along this line have centered on the size of the CCD used on the Canon G-9 camera. The camera design and implemention is excellent. However image quality seems to have been throttled back by the CCD.

Surely, the G model camera is a premier candidate for a high quality camera to be equipped with some size of a CMOS imager. That is how the next break through for the G series cameras will appear. Will it be the G-10? Nobody is quite sure.

Canon traditionally announces new model digicams in late summer or early fall. The Canon S-6 should also be in that group most observers agree. So there may be some good or exciting news out there before too long.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 10, 2008, 3:30 PM   #3
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mtclimber wrote:
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Most discussions along this line have centered on the size of the CCD used on the Canon G-9 camera. The camera design and implemention is excellent. However image quality seems to have been throttled back by the CCD.

Surely, the G model camera is a premier candidate for a high quality camera to be equipped with some size of a CMOS imager. That is how the next break through for the G series cameras will appear. Will it be the G-10? Nobody is quite sure.

Canon traditionally announces new model digicams in late summer or early fall. The Canon S-6 should also be in that group most observers agree. So there may be some good or exciting news out there before too long.

Sarah Joyce
As you have identified , the size of the sensor on a small (P+S size) camera, compared to a DSLR's sensor is my concern.

I'm starting to think that as the G9's sensor is smaller than a typical DSLR that maybe I should wait and see what comes along in a year or two.

I agree with your statement that as the...." Canon G model is a premier candidate for a high quality camera to be equipped with the same size of a CMOS imager." (as a DSLR).

I think there is a market, probably not a huge one, for a high quality, small camera (the size of the typical point and shooter) that can be manually set and have the potential for photos to be the equivalent of DSLR's.

I know I would certainly be interested.


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Old Aug 10, 2008, 4:23 PM   #4
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Sony explored the market for a camera using a CMOS imager when they introduced the R-1 camera. While the R-1 was acknowledged to be a leader in technical development, there were no subsequent cameras added to the R series line.

A portion of the problem with cameras such as the R-1 was very large cameras and lenses in terms of physical size. The use of the APS-C sized imager, such as the CMOS imager used in your K-10 DSLR camera, allowed camera and lens sizes to be reduced, and it was most probably one of the primary factors that saw a much higher level of DSLR interest from camera users.

So when you begin to consider a CMOS imager based digicam, there are many trade-offs that have to be considered in designing that new camera. Yes, we will eventually see a CMOS imager digicam, Canon has been rumored to be working on one for more than a year. The forthcoming Canon G-10 could be that camera, in as much as there is a lot of marketing pressure on Canon to create some kind of new "break through" technology that would increase the appeal and therefore the sales of the flagship of Canon's G series line of cameras.

The oncoming group of new cameras will be interesting. The question is simply this are CMOS imager based digicams ready for prime time yet? Nobody, except those directly working on those now secret projects probably know for sure.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 10, 2008, 11:52 PM   #5
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Thanks for the info. I will keep my eyes open for the new equipment coming down the Pike.
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Old Aug 11, 2008, 12:10 PM   #6
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You might want to pay attention to the new micro 4/3 technology Oly just announced. That seems to hold the promise of the true 'bridge' camera - DSLR capabilities but with a small size.

But, picture quality depends not only on the sensor, but also other factors. Most obviously high ISO shots. But even in other areas - focus speed, accuracy, dynamic range, depth-of-field (for instance you're not going to get the same picture quality out of any digicam at 400mm that you would say out of a Canon 1dSmkIII and Canon 400mm 2.8 ). So the subject matter and type of photography come greatly in to play. For standard snapshots in good lighting, with good depth-of-field at medium focal lengths you'd be very hard pressed to tell the difference between the G9 shots and shots from any DSLR. Where the DSLRs still outshine digicams is when the conditions get more difficult. But if you don't shoot in those conditions, there might be little difference to you. In more difficult situations there is simply no comparison between the digicam and the 'top DSLRs'. Anyone who would tell you the digicam is on par with IQ from a Nikon D3 or Canon 1d / 1ds with appropriate lenses doesn't know what they're talking about. Even the entry level DSLRs can outshine the G9 in more challenging situations.

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Old Aug 11, 2008, 2:02 PM   #7
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I take pictures of cars....ie; resto, hot rods, customs, wildlife like Pelicans, other birds. etc., landscapes.

For the cars I use my K10D and 16-45 Pentax zoom. I used to use my Lumix DMC8 with the Leica lens and I can see the differences quite clearly between the DSLR and the point and shooter. I think my Lumix, although a P+S is quite a good P+S, but it is not contest compared to the K10D.

I use my 55-300 on the K10D for the bird pictures and I need the reach.

I know I might be asking too much, but I miss the days of carrying around my small, old 35mm Leica 11f with it's 50 mm lens.

It didn't have the reach of my old Pentax SLR 35 zooms, etc., but as a small carry around camera, the pictures taken , were at par with the bigger SLRs.

I realize that a Leica is a very fine camera and it's not a fair comparison to P+S, but what I and I bet others would like to be able to get, would be a small digital camera (size of a mid size, say) P+S, that had a sensor quality equivalent to a DSLR, manual settings and a zoom range, say from around 18mm to 250 mm or so.

I'm an old guy so remember reading about and seeing some, of the Nikon and Canon35 mm rangefinders of the '50's that were used by some advanced amateurs and pros, but were cheaper than Leicas.

It's that kind of pocketable (large pocket) camera (with a non interchangeable, quality zoom lens) that I would like to see on the market.

Reading the posts , I'm thinking that the Canon G series isn't quite there yet , or Sony, or Olympus, etc., but may evolve into the kind of camera I would like.
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Old Aug 11, 2008, 2:17 PM   #8
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lesmore49 wrote:
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that had a sensor quality equivalent to a DSLR, manual settings and a zoom range, say from around 18mm to 250 mm or so.
The question is how 'equivelent'? To be EQUAL the sensor needs to be as big as. If the sensor is as big as - then the lens needs to be as well. Which throws out the whole pocketable notion. The digicam sensors are improving but so are the DSLR sensors. There will always be a gap. You'll never have a point and shoot "as good as" the current generation of DSLR sensor. BUT, the question is - would a given camera produce photos that are "good enough"?
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Old Aug 11, 2008, 4:35 PM   #9
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JohnG wrote:
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lesmore49 wrote:
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that had a sensor quality equivalent to a DSLR, manual settings and a zoom range, say from around 18mm to 250 mm or so.
The question is how 'equivelent'? To be EQUAL the sensor needs to be as big as. If the sensor is as big as - then the lens needs to be as well. Which throws out the whole pocketable notion. The digicam sensors are improving but so are the DSLR sensors. There will always be a gap. You'll never have a point and shoot "as good as" the current generation of DSLR sensor. BUT, the question is - would a given camera produce photos that are "good enough"?
I'm spoiled, being used to top quality in my 35 mm days, with a small package like my old Leica.

There wasn't a gap then in the ability to produce the same top quality picture in 35 mm with a smaller package like the Leica, as there you could with a Nikon, Canon or Pentax film SLR. The problem the Leica rangefinder had, wasn't quality, it was being restricted to a limited number of lenses...21 mm to 135mm. That was because of the rangefinder design limitations.

Yeah, I know the Leica is very expensive and I wouldn't want to pay Leica prices for a top, small model digital , non DSLR camera. But I would certainly consider paying Canon G9 prices for a small package that could take equivalent quality pictures to a DSLR.

I would see this type of small, quality camera as supplement to a DSLR. For me anyways. The DSLR with it's great range of lens from fisheye, W/A , Zoom to high quality prime would still be the main instrument.

But a quality, small digital with a W/A to 250mm or so, zoom telephoto would be a great camera to carry around on a everyday basis.

Present technology may not be at this point yet, but maybe the future, hopefully near, will have something in store that can meet these needs.

I know I would be one happy :| !
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 4:41 PM   #10
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Perhaps the new Panasonic LX3 will meet your needs? However, they would have to come out with a good teleconverter lens to reach your minimum 250mm needs.

http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...ix_dmc_lx3.php

Also, who know what Canon will do next for a G10?

Dennis
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