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Old Jun 8, 2004, 4:40 PM   #1
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i still can't decide which to get. so far i've heard good reviews for both yet i'm still stuck someone help me out. digital rebel owners, how has your camera been? any problems? any thoughts on the cybershot? thanks in advance!
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Old Jun 8, 2004, 11:08 PM   #2
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You should post in the Canon digital SLR forum. But in answer to your question, the digital rebel, while only 6 MP provides a superior picture to the Sony DSC-f828 in all respects except resolution. Unless you plan to print anything larger than 8x10, 6 MP should be more than sufficient.
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Old Jun 9, 2004, 10:06 AM   #3
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On other web site forums, this usually creates a small "war" between Sony users who defend the 828 as though it were a child, and the Canon users.

Facts: The Sony is solid, nice to use, has tons of features, but has a pretty bad purple fringing problems with it's images. So much so that even some nicer reviewers have mentioned it, in print and on the web. It's not a "bad" camera, but for $999 or abouts, you can do much better, which leads to the Canon Rebel...

Rebel: Plastic body, but you can use over 50 lenses with it. Sharper images with much less noise than any consumer level camera. If you have a couple of hundred extra dollars, explore the Nikon D70, which offers the same resolution as the Rebel, but has a more solid body and more menu features. If it's a tossup just between the 828 and Rebel... go Rebel.



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Old Jun 9, 2004, 10:28 AM   #4
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The Digital Rebel - NO contest! It's a winner because you can use all of the Canon lenses - for the money I would NOT buy the kit lens, but many others are available. I use the 28-135 IS zoom as it is my#1 lens I have had the Rebel (prefer to call it the 300D) since it came out last September. I have had a ton of great 8 X 10's printed & had a Pro lab print 3 - 16 X 20's from the files & they were tack sharp!

If you have the extra cash like he said buy the Nikon D70 - the kit lens has a better reach & the buffer holds more images. However, their version of the 28-135 is only 24-120 with VR (Vibration reduction)
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Old Jun 9, 2004, 11:42 AM   #5
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photomusic, you haven't said how you will use the camera. What types of pictures will you take? Does size and weight matter? Does cost? Without knowing these things, it is very hard to answer your question.

The Sony has an advantage because it's an all-in-one solution. Lighter, nice zoom, cheaper (when you take into account the number of lenses required to match the Sony's lens.) But the all-in-one is disadvantages as well. A single zoom lens means that you can't upgrade the quality of the lens without replacing the camera. You can't add VR/IS lenses in the future.

There are certainly advantages to the DSLR that if they matter to you are great. Fast shutter speed, good quick metering, fast AF (don't know how the Sony does in these areas, but traditionally the fixed lens consumer cameras are worse.) If these things don't matter to you, then the Sony is probably the better choice. If they do, then you have no choice but to get the DRebel (you get the camera which does what you need it to do.)

A comment on the purple fringing issue. I don't own the camera, so I can't say from personal experience. Some people complain about it and others say the problem doesn't exist. My take is that it happens in certain situations and not in others. If you never take pictures in the situations where the fringing occures, then you'd be safe. If you do, you'll hate the camera. The problem is I don't know the situation, so I can't help you choose based on that criteria... other than to say that if you want to play it safe on this issue, get the DRebel. Another point, though. You can get lenses which will cause fringing on the DRebel (on the Sony it might not only be a lens issue.) So it isn't that you completely avoid the issue by buying the rebel,but you make it possible to avoid it becuse you can buy lenses for it that don't have the issue.

Eric
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Old Jun 10, 2004, 9:29 AM   #6
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eric s wrote:
Quote:
photomusic, you haven't said how you will use the camera. What types of pictures will you take? Does size and weight matter? Does cost? Without knowing these things, it is very hard to answer your question.

The Sony has an advantage because it's an all-in-one solution. Lighter, nice zoom, cheaper (when you take into account the number of lenses required to match the Sony's lens.) But the all-in-one is disadvantages as well. A single zoom lens means that you can't upgrade the quality of the lens without replacing the camera. You can't add VR/IS lenses in the future.

There are certainly advantages to the DSLR that if they matter to you are great. Fast shutter speed, good quick metering, fast AF (don't know how the Sony does in these areas, but traditionally the fixed lens consumer cameras are worse.) If these things don't matter to you, then the Sony is probably the better choice. If they do, then you have no choice but to get the DRebel (you get the camera which does what you need it to do.)

A comment on the purple fringing issue. I don't own the camera, so I can't say from personal experience. Some people complain about it and others say the problem doesn't exist. My take is that it happens in certain situations and not in others. If you never take pictures in the situations where the fringing occures, then you'd be safe. If you do, you'll hate the camera. The problem is I don't know the situation, so I can't help you choose based on that criteria... other than to say that if you want to play it safe on this issue, get the DRebel. Another point, though. You can get lenses which will cause fringing on the DRebel (on the Sony it might not only be a lens issue.) So it isn't that you completely avoid the issue by buying the rebel,but you make it possible to avoid it becuse you can buy lenses for it that don't have the issue.

Eric


Eric... just as an FYI regarding your posted comments: You are right in that 828 images do not have the purple fringing issue all the time. However, I saw a couple of reviews that basically made the comment, "When it does happen, it happens BIG TIME and is severe".

I decided to borrow a sample unit from a friend who runs a camera shop, and I brought one home for a 3 day weekend. On normal scenes such as pet or kid shots in the grass/trees, buildings at eye level, etc., you don't see the problem too bad or at all. But the old "tree branch against a hazy sky" test showedA LOT of fringing, and I also saw much more of it than normal along the edges of some boats in the water, and some chrome in sunlight - an unacceptable amount. The whole point of 8 megapixels is for making large prints (11 x 14, etc.) and the fringe showed up visibly on anything I printed above 5 x 7. This can be fixed in Photoshop, but takes a lot of extra time that I don't think most people would want to spend doing it.The only other camera I've seen that has fringing which is almost as bad so far, is the Fuji S7000. Just my own experience.

Now it's also true that if you put an el-cheapo lens on a digitalSLR, you can have fringing, too. I've tried out a Sigma "DC" lens (only $114.00) on a Canon 10D and it caused fringing, but even then I hate to say, it wasn't quite as bad as the Sony 828.



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Old Jun 10, 2004, 1:47 PM   #7
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Good to know. I haven't touched the 828 (why, I have a 10D?) so personal experience like this is exactly the info I don't have. I'm not surprised it happens with a bright background and small things with lots of edges in front. But it sounds like its much worse than that from what you saw.

Sad. I hope Sony pays and learns.

Eric
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Old Jun 10, 2004, 4:55 PM   #8
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I had both of those cameras, but to be honest, I can't give you a fair saide by side comparison since they are not in the same class. I'm a SLR shooter, therefore, for serious shooting I always use SLR (now D-SLR), for light travel and general shooting, I carry one of the serious P/S digicam (such as the Olympus 8080WZ). But to make the story short, I sold both of the Sony and the Rebel Digital. The Rebel is good, but it's not good enough for me. The Sony is a great tool, but it has some of the minor problems, and one of those problem is the purple fringing. It's true that for experience shooter you can avoid purple fringing if you pay attention to, but it pretty much litmits your capacity for creative framing and composition. I like to shoot in difficult lighting situations and I also love to shoot against the bright light source, especially the shiny subjects, tree on bright backgroundand water. All of those are the best candidates for purple fringing, and with the Sony DSC-F828, it more than likely will happen. I try to do the same tests with the Canon Pro-1 and the Olympus, they shown no sign of purple fringing anywhere. The point I try to make is: not of knowing how to avoid or reduce or elimiate purple fringing but you don't need to if you don't have to with other cameras.

Out of the new 5 (8) megapix p/s digicams, the Olympus 8080WZ is the best digicam in the class (in my book), outstanding performance, and you can almost feel it when you hold one in your hand, just look at the lens, it probably can tell you the whole story. One thing you need to know, the olympus 8080WZ has one of the most "stupid" manual instructions and and average control menu, and I think Olympus need to collect thoughs and re-group to produce a better manual instructions in the future.

There...you have it...if you want to get the p/s digicam, the Olympus 8080 is the best candidate in my book. On the other side, for the best money can buy on D-SLR, Nikon D70 is everything call the best in its class.



Cheers
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Old Jul 5, 2004, 5:43 AM   #9
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What about the purple fringing from the rebel-kit lens, it's there or not? The quality of the image sensor is way to good compared to the F828 but what about the rebel starter lens? Someone took the kit-lens and said "wow, way too light to be glass lens" and someone else pointed to me something similar about other original cannon lens. I also want to buy a Canon 300D instead of the Sony F828 but I don't intend changing the starter lens soon, so?
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Old Jul 5, 2004, 6:05 AM   #10
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Another question comparing the two cameras (strange one): What about the summer pictures? I see some nice things and I want a picture taken, but, ooh, there, it's the sun... on my actual camera I make a cover with my hands and look only on my back screen... the lcd don't hurt ... Now, for the question, the back screen of the 300D is for the play-review only, I have to actually look into the sun to have the picture... now, my parts hurts... no matter the position of the sun, morning or sunset. Don't jump on me that this is a no-no picture, I even use forced-flash in sunny portraits trying to eliminate front shadows if I have to...
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