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Old Jan 8, 2005, 7:54 PM   #11
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Kenny -

There must be a reason for the difference. I wonder if the amount of red-eye depends on the ratio of ambient light to light from the flash? In other words - assuming that there is a fair amount of ambient light - a very bright flash would produce more red-eye than a less bright one?

It would be interesting to lower the flash intensity on your G6 & see if that setting produces less red-eye.....

Herb
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 8:37 PM   #12
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Kenny,

You've hit the nail on the head! Your last comment is VERY well said!:G

In some cases, it almost seems like it's planned by the manufacturers. In the case of yourG6 for example,Canon produced a very good product, but then itseems that just before they put it into mass production,they decided;"hey ... this product just maybe a little too good, so let's 'dumb-down' it's flash capabilities so it's not such a perfect camera in it's class". An exaggeration ... yes, maybe ... but itseems like that'swhat's going on.

I'm at a loss as to whyreputable camera companies (Canon, Minolta, Nikon, ... ) pushcameras out the door with obvious flaws in then! Like in the case of the G6; having a flash system that wouldn't produce so much red-eye, would NOT requirenew technology, and wouldNOT cause a significant increase in the cost of producing the G6.

It's all a very discouraging and disappointing mystery!

Dean
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 8:54 PM   #13
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I agree with you completely DeanB...yah..I'm really puzzled about that. But I absolutely agree that they're doing something to keep the model from being at its best, so that they can add the 'working' features gradually in order to keep their products selling each season.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 8:55 PM   #14
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yah..I might give that a try Herb and see how things go on that. Thanks for that suggestion. Definitely sounds worth a try for sure.
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Old Jan 9, 2005, 1:37 AM   #15
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DeanB wrote:
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I'm at a loss as to why reputable camera companies (Canon, Minolta, Nikon, ... ) push cameras out the door with obvious flaws in then!
There are several reasons, although I have no idea if these are the ones that matter here:

1. Cannibalization: This is a marketing term that refers to a product stealing market share from another product from the same company. If you already have big market share, companies don't want to lose that to another of their products. In such cases, the companies will cripple the products in some manner. This is common in any industry so whether it's digicams, or cars, or computers, or software, or whatever, it's all the same.

2. Hitting product release dates is key in some industries and I imagine it is true in digicams too. For example, in many industries, you can't afford to miss the Christmas period. If you miss key sales periods, your product will just die. As far as digicams are concerned, I think the photo shows see to be important dates to hit (of course, releasing an inferior/buggy/questionable product could damage your brand reputation so that's something to consider)

3. Not enough time/not enough resources/etc: It is also possible that companies just don't have time, or the resources, or the capabilities to put in everything. For example, the Canon S1 IS is missing an AF-assist lamp. From what I understand, the AF assist lamp is a simple thing so it's not clear why it isn't in the S1 IS.

Having said all that, you may or may not agree with those reasons...but that's life in the digicam world
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Old Jan 9, 2005, 3:04 AM   #16
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Sivaram,

In all three of your points, you are probably 'right on the money'! From personal experience, I know it's true of car manufacturers. It's dumb, it's stupid, and it's very short sighted, but I guess it goes on in a lot of industries. I am a very strong supporter ofthe free enterprise system, but it sure as h--- ain't perfect, eh!

All I can say is; "Thank God for websites like this, and forums like this".

Dean
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 6:09 AM   #17
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A very interesting discussion here. I think the only way to make it clear to camera manufacturer (who are clearly dumbing down their camera to try to get you to buy a new one every few years) is to keep what you have for a long time and to contact them directly with your comments.

I'm a G6 owner and Canon has received a real earful from me about the G6 red-eye problem. I agree with Kenny that Canon has no excuse about this flaw.

One thing is for sure, Canonwon't see any more of my money anytime soon. Same with Nikon and their new 8800 with it's unforgivableslug-slow-focusing and dead-slug-slow-write-times.

Hell, if anything happens to my G6, I'll go back to using my Nikon 4500 full time instead of just for digiscoping.

Steve C.
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 8:31 AM   #18
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I'm dissapointed to hear of the red-eye problems with the G6. My S1 IS, which is "worse" than the G6, doesn't seem to have red-eye issues so I'm wondering what the problem is... Mid-end prosumers really shouldn't have red-eye problems--at least, that's what we should all hope...
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 10:01 AM   #19
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Sivaram Velauthapillai wrote:
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I'm dissapointed to hear of the red-eye problems with the G6. My S1 IS, which is "worse" than the G6, doesn't seem to have red-eye issues so I'm wondering what the problem is... Mid-end prosumers really shouldn't have red-eye problems--at least, that's what we should all hope...
Redeye occurs when the flash is too close to the lens. You're seeing the reflection of the flashfromthe eye's retina. This is a problem with a lot of compact cameras including all of the G series Canons. It's a designcompromise that Canon made to keep the G6 within a certain physical size.

The redeye reduction setting fires a preflash before the main flash that causes the subject's pupils to contract and redeye becomes less noticeable. I personally don't like this mode. An external flash is only way to completely eliminate redeye with the G6.

regards...Santos
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 11:34 AM   #20
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Santos -

"Redeye occurs when the flash is too close to the lens." I've been pondering why red-eye's worse with some cameras than others, and your explanation makes sense.

It gives me the idea of making an attachment with a couple of mirrors in it - like a sort or reverse periscope - that would clip to the camera & deflect the flash so that it emerged an inch or two further away from the camera lens.

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