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Old Jan 15, 2005, 8:05 PM   #1
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edit: the pic is attached

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Also, what's a good, inexpensive, pocket camera for indoor no-flash shooting? I typically won't need more than a 90 to 144mm max zoom, but I would like something that's not much bigger than the Canon A95 (definitely smaller than the G3/G5/G7) that has a fast lens at telephoto (no slower than F/3.2 or so - F/2.8 or faster would be nice (and F/2.0 or faster at < 54mm)) and can capture decent (before NeatImage/Noiseware/NoiseNinja) ISO 400 or 800 shots. I typically won't be printing larger than 4x5.33 (maintaining the 4:6 aspect ratio assuming putting the shots in a normal photo album), but I might be doing some moderate (maybe 2x sometimes 3x) cropping (in this case I'd rather do cropping (preferably in-camera) than optical zoom because it gives me more room for error as to where I'm pointing the camera.
Also, I'd like something that won't give me so much "human" shutter lag (i.e. manually setting focus, aperture, ISO speed, and shutter speed) - that's a lot of what's responsible for me missing many of my shots).
This camera would be one I carry with me all the time, whereas my S1 is more for certain shots and occasions.

Any suggestions?
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Old Jan 15, 2005, 10:41 PM   #2
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doesnt sound like your asking for much here:?:?

you might check lieca maybe they make one. most "pocket cameras" have slower lenses especially at max zoom, i dont know of any pocket versions with that much zoom(35mm equivilant) and have very fast lenses. most ive seen in the compact class rely on digital zoom to a large degree. the sheer size(small) doesnt lend itself well to fast glass. i have heard of a few that have fast lenses but there in the class of the pro1 in size(medium to larger digital) but thats not all that bad as they tend to fit the hands better and are still relatively compact compared to a 35mm slr for instance. my guess is theres no pocket class digital like what your looking for. i think sony`s got a 7 or 8 mp camera with leica glass, though its not what i call a pocket camera, it has the fastest glass at the time i read of it. i think it was a f2.4 thats slightly faster than my pro1 at f2.8.
all that being said someone might know of a fast compact out there . if theres one like you describe and can be pocketable id sure like to know myself.
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 9:08 AM   #3
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Ok, I just looked up EV value on the net, and for typical indoor lighting, I'd like to be able to get approximately a 1/40" to 1/80" shutter speed or so at EV 4 or so (dim indoor lighting or night outdoor lighting) with the images being no noisier than the Toshiba PDR-M81 at ISO 400 (4 megapixels on a 1/1.8" sensor) (pic courtesy of imaging-resource.com).

This camera will mostly be a carry-with-me-all-the-time camera. I might mostly use it for indoor no-flash shots, but may also sometimes use it in much better lighting. I do want some room to crop (especially for good-light photos when I don't have the S1 IS with me) but would also like an in-camera option to resize an image (to a good 150-200dpi 4x6 print size) to reduce noise, for poor lighting.
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 9:43 AM   #4
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pianoplayer88key wrote:
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Ok, I just looked up EV value on the net, and for typical indoor lighting, I'd like to be able to get approximately a 1/40" to 1/80" shutter speed or so at EV 4 or so (dim indoor lighting or night outdoor lighting) with the images being no noisier than the Toshiba PDR-M81 at ISO 400 (4 megapixels on a 1/1.8" sensor) (pic courtesy of imaging-resource.com).

You can't do this with a pocket camera. You'll need a camera with a larger sensor and brighter lens.

At an EV of 4, you'd need a shutter speed of 1/40 second at f/1.8 and ISO 800 for proper exposure. f/1.8 and ISO 1600 would get you 1/80 second in the same lighting (which is where you'd need to get to, in order to reduce motion blur from camera shake at a 35mm equivalent focal length of around 80mm).

See my earlier post to you. Buy aDSLR and forget about having a pocket camera if you need existing light performance this good. Note that you will also have a very shallow depth of field at apertures this large:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=78

Look, you're obviously not a dumb person. So, why do you bother asking questions that you already know the answers to?

You've asked similar questions over and over again (asking for things that don't exist, with complex specifications, etc.).

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Old Jan 16, 2005, 11:46 AM   #5
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You aren't going to find a camera that will solve your fence problem IMO unless you go to a DSLR with a lens with lots of glass. The small sensors in non-DSLRs give focal lengths that are too low to limit the depth of field to what you want. Even with a DSLR and fast lens you will have problems with the ratio of the distance to the fence and distance to the subject being so close compared to the shooting distance. You would have to play with the focus to focus beyond the target and try to get the subject sharp enough while blurring the fence. You need a SLR screen to have the viewfinder resolution to do that.

About the only pocket camera you might get indoor non-flash shots with is the Panasonic FX7. It has no manual exposure modes and no optical viewfinder. The LCD doesn't gain up in low light, which makes it very difficult to frame a shot in limited light. But the stabilization gives you a good chance of being able to get shots in indoor light without a flash. Stabilization doesn't help for subject movement and even with 2-3 f-stops advantage you can't shoot in very low light.

Turn the stabilization off on your S1 and take the indoor shots you want in the 1-3X range without flash at ISO 400. That is about as well as any pocket camera might do without stabilization at 1X and better than most can do at 3X because they raise the f-stop more than the S1. There is no magic solution other than flash or a tripod. Some might have a little less noise at ISO400, but not by a lot. The 7Mp sensors in some of the small cameras have decent noise characteristics. Or you could look for a 3-4Mp camera with the largest sensor you can find.

Neat Image helps a lot, but you still lose resolution shooting at too high an ISO.

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Old Jan 17, 2005, 9:28 AM   #6
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You probably need a really good dslr camera and lens that allows for focus bracketting.
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Old Jan 17, 2005, 11:11 PM   #7
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My camera I have now does focus bracketing, but I can't shoot the shots fast enough. I need the combined time to be short enough to completely stop motion of kids playing. I am doing it in daylight, so I won't need to gain up the ISO really high or open up the aperture super wide.
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