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Old Sep 18, 2006, 6:33 AM   #21
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I have disassembled the camera again!

It does not look like it is going to be easy to cure the whine.

Instead of runing the microphone wires over the back of the circuit board of the camera (inside sleeving), I have trailed the wires out of the top of the camera in a simlar sort of direction, or indeed further from the workings of the camera than they were when they went to the onboard microphone in the flash housing. They did not have screening on the way to the onboard microphone either.

But alas the wine remains. Hence the reason for the wine is perhaps
1) Probably not related to the fact that the wires are not screened from the camera.


2) One of the two channels (left) is completely unconnected, and these trailing ends are resulting in some sort of instability or picking up interference. The latter possibility is NOT born out by the fac that the while seems to be the same on both channels, however, circuits are funnying things and have an unconnected input in a situation where the circuitry was designed for that never to happen - since the microphone was onboard and not disconnectable - might lead to instability, I guess.

3) The impedance (resistance) or output of the current microphone is different such that the camera is amplifying more and thus resulting in more noise than normal. But I have a movie from when the microphones were still on board, and I can't here the noise at all. Hmm...this does not seem likely. And in any case, I want to use a directional microphone such as one in the picture above so finding out that the microphone is the problem may not lead to any resolution since I may not be able to find a good directional microhone with the same impedance as the onboard microphones.

So near and yet so far.

Put an external microphone socket on your cameras Casio! Please!

Tim

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Old Sep 18, 2006, 10:32 AM   #22
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I failed!

I resoldered using screened cable and found that the problem seemed to be the unconnected channel (I only wanted mono, only had room for a mono jack). Just cutting the unused two wires down to a short size seemed to reduce the whine but in the end I broke two of the thin internal mike wires, both of the white ones, meaning that I do not have a pair to solder to.

This was the last attempt, and the whine is not very noticable.
http://ds21.cc.yamaguchi-u.ac.jp/~ec...p/CIMG1485.AVI

ach....

If I was better at soldering, had better eyesight, and a better soldering iron...No, the problem was I made the mistake of leading the four thin wires out of the top of the case and shutting the case down on them. This introduced a kink in the wires where subsequently two of them - one from each pair- snapped.

The solution of removing the strap attachment and leading the wires out of the hole left by it, only occured to me later.

I do have a four pin jack socket, so with a lot of care I could have connected all four wires to that but then I would need to create a four pin jack plug to two, mono jacks. I would then have to connect two microphones or a stereo directional microphone. I am not aware of the existance of directional stereo microphones, or if they exist I do not have one. Mono audio microphones are the business. They are great for interviews or picking up only voice.

So perhaps I ideally I would have put a resistor accross the unused channel but I do not have a resitor or space for one either.

I think that just cutting the unused channel wires down to a short size would do the trick, reducing the high pitched whine down to acceptable levels. The last attempt above was with one unused wire still trailing. If that was snipped then I think that the whine would not have been noticable.

But then I broke one of the remaining pair of wires to the mono jack,near to the socket on the circuit board.

Nearly.

It would be so nice to have a small external-microphone capable video camera.

The quality was ample...

Drat. Maybe I will have it mended so that I can break it again!

Tim



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Old Sep 18, 2006, 12:31 PM   #23
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Dead!

I tried again, soldering on toa 5mm wire.

To gain greater access to the wire I removed the screws holding the main circuit board in position (don't do that!). I managed to do the soldering but, putting it back together I found that something was very wrong. The picture was very dim. I am not sure why. I think it had something to do with moving the circuit board.


I tried wobbling the position of the circuit board in the hope that it was just a connection. No joy. And then I tried removing the circuit board screws when the power was on and wobbling the circuit board more.


And then I dropped one of the scews onto the circuit board with the power on and my p505 died. One or more of the semiconductors on the main circuit board has clearly died.


Aah. What a waste eh? There are about 250 dollars now. I paid300 for mine I think. One could feed a family for that for a month in some countries.

But it was just no use as it was. Ineed (a small, solid state, random access, high definition movie camera WITH) AN EXTERNAL MICROPHONE!

I am not aware of the existance of such a device. The latest super duper Panasonic *high definition* cameras costing 5000 USDrecord to flash memory cards but they arebig and expensive and I need nowhere near that sort of definition. There are panasonics with SD cards but they (and allcameras) have NO microphone. There was an Olympus (referenced earlier in this thread) but it had problems, not least of which was the inability to turn the display towards the front. There are Chinese hybrids, and I think that one or two have an external microphone but the definition is pants.

Maybe one day I will purchase another Casiop505and do it right. I know what to do now.

But all the same soldering in a microelectronic environment is fraught.

One day soon there will be solid state cameras with an external microphone jack. If only for all those Youtubers that want to vlog outside.

I hope that Casio is the company to provide it because the p505 is a nice camera. RIP.

Ahmen!

Tim

PS there are quite high voltages inside these cameras, so aside from the dangers to the camera, those with pacemakers or weak hearts, beware.
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Old Sep 19, 2006, 6:32 AM   #24
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I have bought another one (they are pretty cheap on Japanese ebay these days).

What afool?

The combined cost of two p505s is still less than the cost of either of the digital video cameras that I have. I used the exilim more in the one day that it had an external microphone.

I know how to open the case.
I have a charger and batteries and lens protector.

I will drill a hole for the wire rather than removing the strap fixture entirely. I can use the wires and plug from the old camera.

And I have a simple solution for the hum on the non attached chanel - leave it attached to the internal microphone. I can kill the unwanted chanel in Vegas or whatever.

More to follow.



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Old Sep 25, 2006, 6:22 AM   #25
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Okay...I have a new p505 which Ipurchased inexpensively(less than $200 dollars new without guarantee - which will be void anyway, after what I am about to do) from Yahoo auctions Japan.

I have purchased a nice soldering iron which ends in a 2 or 3mm snout (rather than a point) which facilitates the positioning of melted solder on the tip of the iron, thus allowing quicker more effective heat transfer to stranded wires. I am a bad workman, and blame my tools.

I have also found out that another Casio camera 750have an almost identical whine at 7522hz, I believethat comes from the LCD. You can here the 750 whine here
http://www.swiftcurrentphoto.com/750hiss/
which sounds the same as my camera's whine here
http://ds21.cc.yamaguchi-u.ac.jp/~econo/temp/CIMG1474.AVI
The formerwhine was fixed by the addition of a notch filter in new Z750firmware. There is a chance that the new firmware for the p505 and there is a chance that it comes with a notch filter. In any event, I am informed that my editor of choice (Sony Vegas) has an appropriate filter, in its most expensive version at least, so I should be able to remove the whine.

The whine should be greatly reduced since I will not leave one channel trailing, but rather leave one channel connected to the internal microphone.

I would like to have the possibility of stereo microphones but for some reason the Casio has FOUR wires to the microphones and not three. The earth or whatever you call it for each microphone is different. Four contact jacks are available but I lack the skill to solder onto the tiny connections inside them. And I think that plugging a mono microphone into the four plug socket would probably do bad things to the camera. I think that the only way forward would be a three pin stereo microphone jack, but for the time being I will only use it mono.

Please could someone from Casio tell me if it is okay to (1) connect the two white "earth" wires together?

I have purchased a stereo jack exension cord that I will cut and use just two of the wires. This means that I do not have to solder the Jack socket only two wire-to-wire connects.

I may cut a hole in the top of the camera to give betteraccess to the microphone wires. There is a metal plate over this region anyway. I may use the micro-minature micrphone plug from the old Casio RIP.

Hopefullly I should have an external microphoned p505 by tommorrow. Or another piece of junk!

I am enjoying my p505 more now that I can edit it using Vegas but, I believe it is best to 'sail your ships into uncharted waters' etc...

Fingers crossed

Tim
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Old Sep 26, 2006, 1:54 AM   #26
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Junk! Yes! Casio ex p505 bites the dust.

I give up.

For those that may be interested in trying after me. It went well till I closed the case. I have closed the case three times.

1) The first time it went well except for the whine. I had used the thin microphone wires accross the back of the cricuit board and solder fairly near to the exit.

2) The second time I had used screened cable. This resulted in the screen going black. I opened the case and then droped a screw on the circuit board with the power onwhich killed the camera completely.

3) This time, again, it was working fine (no whine, good signal) with the case open but when I closed the case - a tight fit - again the screen had gone black. I tried recording in that situation and while voice was recordable via the external microphone and on board microphone, there was no visual signal, so it is not just a case of a lack of a sign to the LCD display.

I presume that using a thickish screened wire results in pressure on the back of the circuit board, which causes something to short, or disconnect.

Or it could be something much more random, like static from my fingers.

EDIT: Thinking about it, the way to do it is NOT to open the back at all. Just open the top of the flash enclosure, where the microphones are, snipt the wires, and add a jack out of the top of the camera. It would look bad, get in the way of the use of the flash but it would avoid the need to open the main circuit board area. It would be a problem removing only one channel, however.

I may attempt to get Casio's help but I think that it is very unlikely that they will be able to help in this situation. I guess I could pay to have the camera fixed (they said that replacing the main circuit board was only 120 dollars) but I would still be without an external microphone. I doubt if I can persuade them to do that.

NO. I failed. They said that they would put the camera back to its original state but not aid the attachment of an external microphone. I would pay the price of another camera to get a camera withoa microphone but, one without, is not something I really want.

If there is any Casio or non Casio person that would undertake this work I would pay for another camera but I have to admit that I am not able to do this work.

The lfinal two movies from my second dead Exilim ex-p505 are

Before I tried to shut the case, with the lens pointed at a desk (that is why it is dark), showing that the microphone worked fine. My wife singing a nursery ryme...
http://ds21.cc.yamaguchi-u.ac.jp/~econo/temp/CIMG1489.AVI
After I closed the case, and not pointing at a desk - it is dark nowbecause the poor camera is dead (but for the sound, which has issues too)
http://ds21.cc.yamaguchi-u.ac.jp/~econo/temp/CIMG1490.AVI

I may have said earlier in this thread but....the reason for external microphone issue is, I believe

1) Some, or even many, Westerners like me would like to be able to add language to their videos. I am a language obsessed Westerner. The internal microphone picks up everything and makes narration difficult.
2) Japanese rule the world when it comes to vision (cameras, games, manga, anime) because they have a very visual culture. But they are not terribly interested in language. Hence the plethora of superb cameras that can't record language very well. This is the topic of my research.

So, I think that Casio or other Japanese camera makers would make more money if they realised how important language is to some (perhaps many) Westerners and provided a microphone jack.

Imagine how cool it would be to be able to plug in a mic and do interviews (self-interviews, or of others) with a tiny Casio camera! I like to think that it is not only me that would be thrilled by this prospect.

I leave you with what might (and almost was) have been.


Nearly (sniff, wail, weep)

Tim
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Old Sep 26, 2006, 7:08 PM   #27
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You are back to square one. I think the whine is being picked up by the regular standard microphone you attached to the camera. Try using a uni-directional microphone, it might help.
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 3:34 AM   #28
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I am a glutton for punishment.I bought a third camera at another 230 dollars, and BROKE THAT TOO

This time I attempted to add the microphone into the flash compartment area. The flash compartment is quite difficult to open (a 001 philips screw driver with metalbarrel is needed) but Iknow my way into a Casio Exilim p505now.I bought a better soldering iron (Goot 40W) and some heat sink clips to keep the tiny wiresas far from thebody as possible.

But I destroyed my third camera. The screen is blank when I turn it on.

I think that the cause was residue charge left on the flash capacitor discharging into the tiny microphone cables. I had removed the battery, and I had attempted to discharge the capicitor but failed. Andpart the way through thesolcderingprocess I electrocuted myselfso it is clear that I failed.

I really would love one of these cameras with a mircrophone but I really can NOTbuya fourth camera, so that is alasthe end of that.

I will use eithermy mini DVD or miniDV tape camera's instead, bulky fragile and pesky to access though they are.

I am sure that flash memory video cameras will be out within the next couple of years, and that the first companies to provide audio connectors will make a killing.

Tim
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 8:20 PM   #29
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Flash memory video cameras are already starting to flood the market. Panasonic leading the way with their SDR-S150, SV-AV10, Sanyo with their Xacti VPC-HDI, Mustek Dv4000 etc. All using SD memory cards. With the new SDHC version of SD cards, more companies will be encouraged to come up with video cameras using high capacity SD cards. But going back to your personal struggle with the Casio P505, I find it hard to use the camera with a karaoke microphone on the left hand trying to control the Casio P505 with the Right hand. I prefer a built-in microphone. You can always add the sound later on using an editing software. But I am impressed with your determination. Thanks.
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 8:28 PM   #30
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As far as I know the Panasonic and Sanyo's (recently really cheap) do not have external micrphones and indeed, their microphones are on the LCD display cover which when you are taking pictures of yourself (I want to make English Language teaching mini videos of places and things in my Japanese town, with me speaking or interviews with me interviewing) then the microphone points the wrong way! Yes...I could try and dub onto my lips later but it would not be easy, and it would be impossible when it comes to interviews.

I have sent the dead bodies of three casio cameras back to Casio in the hope thatsomeone shows a little mercy but I don't think I deserve it.
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