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Old Jun 30, 2010, 9:42 PM   #11
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You're going to have similar limitations with it. It's GN is 40 meters with the zoom head at the 85mm position (and it will have a shorter range with a shorter zoom head setting).

If you can't get closer than 10 meters, and you're zoomed in much with that kit lens, you're going to need to bump up your ISO speed to get a couple of shots in a burst.

An SB-600 will probably recycle faster with good batteries in it (for example, a set of Eneloops). But, from that distance, using that lens if you're zoomed in much (where your widest available aperture will be f/5.6), you'll be limited as to how you can use it (with pauses between shots if you take more than a couple in a row with ISO speeds bumped up). So, you'll probably need to learn to time your shots, versus relying on lots of bursts of photos, or go with a more powerful flash and/or brighter lens. IOW, set it to around ISO 800 and take them at slower rate, timing them for peaks in the action (or set ISO speed lower and expect a longer wait between photos). Or, use a wireless setup so that the flashes are located closer to the action if you can't get closer.
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 12:02 AM   #12
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You're going to have similar limitations with it. It's GN is 40 meters with the zoom head at the 85mm position (and it will have a shorter range with a shorter zoom head setting).

If you can't get closer than 10 meters, and you're zoomed in much with that kit lens, you're going to need to bump up your ISO speed to get a couple of shots in a burst.

An SB-600 will probably recycle faster with good batteries in it (for example, a set of Eneloops). But, from that distance, using that lens if you're zoomed in much (where your widest available aperture will be f/5.6), you'll be limited as to how you can use it (with pauses between shots if you take more than a couple in a row with ISO speeds bumped up). So, you'll probably need to learn to time your shots, versus relying on lots of bursts of photos, or go with a more powerful flash and/or brighter lens. IOW, set it to around ISO 800 and take them at slower rate, timing them for peaks in the action (or set ISO speed lower and expect a longer wait between photos). Or, use a wireless setup so that the flashes are located closer to the action if you can't get closer.
I actually don't use burst to get a good shot. I can get perfect shots with a shutter speed of 1/200. I want burst so I can make sequence photos of a trick. I also want a flash to set up on a tripod away from me so I will need the wireless setup.
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 7:18 AM   #13
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SB-600 isn't much better: Guide number (at 35mm zoom-head position, 20C/68F) 42/138 (ISO 200,m/ft)

http://www.nikon.ca/en/Product.aspx?m=14551&disp=Specs

The SB-900 is a bit better at 48/157.5 (ISO 200, m/ft) but at 10 meters your still pushing the range of either the SB-600 or SB-900 and will experience long recycle times.

http://www.nikon.ca/en/Product.aspx?m=14565&disp=Specs

You also have to be careful with fast cycling external flash to allow them to cool off between bursts or risk burning them out from overheating.
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 12:12 PM   #14
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SB-600 isn't much better: Guide number (at 35mm zoom-head position, 20C/68F) 42/138 (ISO 200,m/ft)

http://www.nikon.ca/en/Product.aspx?m=14551&disp=Specs

The SB-900 is a bit better at 48/157.5 (ISO 200, m/ft) but at 10 meters your still pushing the range of either the SB-600 or SB-900 and will experience long recycle times.

http://www.nikon.ca/en/Product.aspx?m=14565&disp=Specs

You also have to be careful with fast cycling external flash to allow them to cool off between bursts or risk burning them out from overheating.
Why is everyone refering to 10 meters? I must of said something about that...
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 12:21 PM   #15
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Why is everyone refering to 10 meters? I must of said something about that...
Yes, you mentioned it (as I see you realized immediately after this question), since I see you just finished editing one of your previous posts around 1 minute after this question, removing the part about 10 meters. You originally said this yesterday, before the edit you just made:

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What do you think of the Vivitar DF283. It's $83 on amazon. I only need it to reach like 10 meters but its the brightness and burst i need.
This is the post I'm referring to:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fl...ml#post1113069

Editing a post like that after multiple responses based on what you stated originally (before your edit today) will only serve to confuse members trying to offer advice. You'd be better off restating your requirements if they have changed, since you only removed the part about 10 meters with an edit of the post mentioning it roughly 1 minute after your last post questioning why were are mentioning 10 meters in our responses (the edit you made occurred around 1:13PM EST today, even though the original post was made yesterday).

If you don't need to be 10 meters away, I'd give members a better idea of where you can shoot from for better responses.
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Old Jul 1, 2010, 1:42 PM   #16
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Yes, you mentioned it (as I see you realized immediately after this question), since I see you just finished editing one of your previous posts around 1 minute after this question, removing the part about 10 meters. You originally said this yesterday, before the edit you just made:

This is the post I'm referring to:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fl...ml#post1113069

Editing a post like that after multiple responses based on what you stated originally (before your edit today) will only serve to confuse members trying to offer advice. You'd be better off restating your requirements if they have changed, since you only removed the part about 10 meters with an edit of the post mentioning it roughly 1 minute after your last post questioning why were are mentioning 10 meters in our responses (the edit you made occurred around 1:13PM EST today, even though the original post was made yesterday).

If you don't need to be 10 meters away, I'd give members a better idea of where you can shoot from for better responses.
Yes I said 10 meters for some reason after reading some responses I looked back and edited what I said because it's wrong. If im shooting skateboarding I can be about 2 meters away. I don't know why I said 10.
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Old Jul 2, 2010, 6:04 AM   #17
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Remember with the d50, you don't have wireless capability unless you use the SU-4 controller or get a SB800 or 900 and use it as a controller which will then require a second flash (SB600, 800, or 900). And shooting wirelessly you won't be able to get off a very long burst if any burst at all due to recycle times as others have mentioned.
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Old Jul 2, 2010, 8:45 AM   #18
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If you go with a shoe mount flash and you can get closer (i.e., your 2 meters requirements), you should be able to get off some short bursts. According to it's manual, the SB-600 can give you 4 frames in a burst at 1/8 power; or up to 30 frames in a burst at 1/64 power.

The higher the ISO speed, and the closer you are, and the wider your aperture (smaller f/stop numbers), the more photos you should be able to take in a burst.

But, note that a flash can get hot from too many photos without letting it cool off (and if it gets too hot, that can result in premature failure). Nikon even recommends letting a flash cool off for 10 minutes between bursts.

A model like the SB-600 does not have a thermal shutdown feature. So, you can overheat the flash and cause premature failure.

The SB-900 does have a thermal shutdown feature. But, you tend to see complaints about it shutting the flash down too easily during event shoots, so some users disable it (you can turn it off), risking premature flash failure.

IOW, you can probably get away with short bursts at closer ranges (i.e., a handful of photos at a time, depending on your ISO speed settings). But, you may cause the flash to overheat and fail on you if you are trying to do a lot of that kind of thing.

As for the third party flash you're looking at, you'd have to try and to see if burst shooting works with it.
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Old Jul 2, 2010, 9:24 AM   #19
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Let's also remember here - you're talking MOVING subjects. The additional problem here is - subject motion blur. HSS is a poor way to go as your flash power is dramatically lowered. So, you are relying on your flash to freeze the subject - NOT shutter speed. For flash to freeze the motion it means your camera exposure needs to be at least 2 stops below ambient. Which means more flash power to properly illuminate. So you're not going to be using 1/8 power - more like 1/4 or 1/2. Having shot football with canon 580exII (similar to sb800) I can tell you that 2 shots is a good expectation.
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Old Jul 2, 2010, 10:14 AM   #20
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I thought he meant at night, as he was discussing getting blurry photos at night with his 18-55mm lens and asking if a different lens or a flash would be better here:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/ge...ens-flash.html

If not, and he just wants to use a flash for fill in the daytime versus freezing action, then his camera does have an x-sync speed of 1/500 second, and I've seen users report it will sync OK up to 1/800 second or faster with a manual flash (versus using a TTL Flash), since it's basically using a combination mechanical/electronic shutter design to get faster x-sync speeds than most other similar cameras. Nikon designed some of their 6MP dSLR models that way using Sony 6MP CCD Sensors. Their models using other sensors don't get that feature.

I don't know if you could get an SB-600 to work that way or not (it's got a manual power setting mode, but the camera may not allow more than 1/500 second with that flash), since you may want faster shutter speeds at wider apertures when using higher ISO speed settings (to get a shorter flash burst/lower power flash) to keep from overexposing the scene from ambient light. Someone would have to try one to find out.
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