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Old Oct 10, 2002, 7:57 AM   #1
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Default Fuji S602 and external flash...

Recommendation?
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 9:43 AM   #2
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Just about any non-dedicated flash should work fine. The flash I use is a bit pricey new but you can find them used at a reasonable cost. It all depends on how much you want to spend. Best thing you can do it get a bracket and not mount the flash in the hot shoe.
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Old Dec 6, 2002, 9:48 PM   #3
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I chose a Vivitar 285HV for my s602. Using the hot shoe...
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Old Dec 6, 2002, 11:15 PM   #4
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Hello,

I'm looking for the same kind of external flash recommendation, but I have another question. In choosing a flash, I would like to get one with an autofocus illuminator since that is obviously a feature that my Fuji S602 is lacking. However, the only flashes I've found with such an illuminator are dedicated flashes. Does that mean that the AF-assist illuminator ONLY works with a compatible TTL camera? Also I'd like a really bright one that would give me good exposure at 200 feet - f/4 - 1/500

Thanks,
Tri
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Old Dec 7, 2002, 12:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialpha
Does that mean that the AF-assist illuminator ONLY works with a compatible TTL camera?
Yes sir, unless you manage to make a manual pushbutton yourself. Anyway, no AF-illuminator will reach 200 feet, you gonna need a holahola laser pointer may be :mrgreen:

Quote:
Originally Posted by trialpha
Also I'd like a really bright one that would give me good exposure at 200 feet - f/4 - 1/500
Tri
How much you can pay for?
The Metz 60 CT-4 give you that:
60 meters GN @ ISO100 and @ 35mm focal ( 35mm film focal of course)
That’s “a really bright one” as you said.
You can also add a fresnel that can nearly double that , hehe :shock:
(The Metz 70 series however are less powerful)

1/500 is meaningless, because the flash burst will be much shorter than that duration, it only affect your background illumination .
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Old Dec 7, 2002, 5:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Does that mean that the AF-assist illuminator ONLY works with a compatible TTL camera?
It depends on the camera. I have the Minolta 5600HS-D dedicated TTL for my camera and the flash AF-assist illuminator works fine when mounted on film cameras, but on the D7's it doesn't even turn it on!

It seems like some camera doesn't need this, but may be it's different with the S602 (or the 5700). Any input Klaus?
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Old Dec 7, 2002, 1:12 PM   #7
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Thanks for the response Kcan. The Metz looks like quite a flash, but the price tag is a bit intimidating.

Perhaps I should provide a little more info about myself. I'm a beginner when it comes to still photography so please forgive my babbling and ignorance if I'm off base with my thoughts here. I am accustomed to working with broadcast video cameras with 16x or better lenses on the handheld models and 40x or better on some studio configs. But in the still photography world I'm moving from a Pentax IQ140zoom (which I'm not sure actually qualifies as a camera, but it's a very simple point & shoot device which consumes 35mm film) to a Fuji S602 Zoom which I read about here on Steve's site. Overall, I LOVE the camera - thanks Steve for the great, informative review.

The present goal with the flash is that I want to be able to shoot pictures of my niece chearleading without them being dark and blurry as they were with my Pentax. Of course I realize she was well beyond the 10 inch effective range of the Pentax onboard flash and there was simply not enough light for an acceptable shutter speed to eliminate motion blur or a sufficient aperture to provide the desired depth of field - not that I had any control over it anyway with the Pentax.

Unfortunately, the onboard flash of the Fuji S602 is only a little better than that of the old filmeater. The few flash pictures I've taken are sometimes okay overall, but the flash falloff around the edges is quite noticable, and the colors look much more natural without the flash, but of course they tend to have motion blur - and those shots were not even action shots. They weren't on a tripod either, but stationary objects were ok, so I don't think it was me shaking.

So, I've been trying to learn the formulas to figure out how potent a flash I need. :? With the 6x (35-210mm equivalent) zoom on the S602 I figure that my maximum range for decent framing of people shots is probably around 100'/30m (or maybe less). The maximum aperture of the camera is f/2.8 but I believe I'll want to run around f/4 to have a suitable depth of field. The f/4 comes from my experience with video cameras depth of field, so that may not really be accurate here. Assuming a distance of 100'/30m the forumla I have (Distance=GN*Aperature) indicates I would need a flash with a guide number of 400'/120m if I were using a ISO100 film. The S602 however does not have an ISO100 equivalent gain setting. I would probably want to use the ISO200 equivalent setting anyway, so that would divide the required guide number by a factor of 1.4 thus I would be looking for a guide number of around 285'/85m.

That's a lot more potent than any flash specs I've seen, but I suppose if I were to use the fresnel you mentioned that would do it - at least on paper. I was hoping for something in a $300 or less range, but I don't know if it's possible to get the power would need in that range. I would also like to be able to have the flash do some of this calculation stuff for me. Being new at this I don't want to exceed my (and my camera's) abilities too drastically. It would be great for example if I could set an aperture priority mode on the camera at f/4 - ISO200, and make the same settings on the flash and it do the rest. Is this feasible? Is there a less expensive flash that will do the job? Or should I be looking at doing this with less flash and more aperture? Is the 1/500 shutter speed still meaningless considering I want to eliminate motion blur? Or would I be better off to use a slower shutter and have some minimal motion blur?

I hope my ignorance doesn't make me look too foolish and that I havent thrown too many comments and questions in the pot. I appreciate your patience and input.

Thanks,
Tri
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Old Dec 8, 2002, 12:22 AM   #8
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Tri,
One thing to check in the choice of a flash is the focal length associated with the announced GN, some makes will give at a pretty wide angle end ( as 35mm, a usually useful value…) , some others will give you the the GN at the long end ( mostly flash with zoom head, so they sure like to advertise a high GN , which is lower at the wide end )
It should be very rare a “bare” flash with a GN around 100 meters .
(The formula doesn’t take in account the coverage area, ie focal length used, ie flash real power to illuminate a portion of the scene, it gives you a GN assuming that the flash is “tuned” for the focal length you actually need)

I think you should choose a flash that is powerful enough to meet your requirement with the use of an additional fresnel ( there are generic adaptable also , not only Metz have that) , yet, have a wide angle coverage that suit your other normal needs too ( family/people shots will be often at the 28-35-50 mm zoom range)

The choice of the shutter speed will greatly depends of the scene not reached by the flash, 1/500, is somewhat high IMO, assuming you are not shooting at bright sun ( that’s why you need a flash in first lieu …) For the kind of shooting , I guess a slower speed will do, but I am not good in the exposure calculation stuff, may be others will inform you more accurately.
I think that you better open up more the aperture , to allow a reasonable high shutter speed (avoid blur), and able to profit the flash output light, rather than scarify the “light” over DOF .In that way, you gonna be able to get a better exposure of the backgroud.
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Old Dec 8, 2002, 2:14 PM   #9
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KCan,

Quote:
One thing to check in the choice of a flash is the focal length associated with the announced GN, some makes will give at a pretty wide angle end ( as 35mm, a usually useful value…) , some others will give you the the GN at the long end ( mostly flash with zoom head, so they sure like to advertise a high GN , which is lower at the wide end)
Thanks for clarifying that issue. I had wondered what difference the focal length of the camera lens could have on the intensity of the flash -- though I understand the dropoff associated with a zoom lens as it reaches it's maximum focal length. Now it makes perfect sense. They're 'zooming' the flash with the camera lens - if you have TTL to control that feature.

Also, I should retract my statement about the S602 on-camera flash being only a little better than my older camera. I didn't realize just how 'intelligent' it is. I observed that the camera adjusted the flash to properly expose a subject at a range of about 5 feet in auto mode using 1/60 - f/2.8 - ISO 160. Then I switched to manual mode and set 1/60 - f/11 expecting an extremely dark picture. Boy was I wrong - the flash intensity was increased dramatically and properly exposed the foreground. The only real difference was the lack of ambient light in the background. However, the LCD display did have to take a brief nap as the flash recharged.

Of course I still need an external flash. I was looking at the specs on the Metz 45CL-4. I assume it's the same as your 45CT-4 and it's much closer to my price range and MUCH lighter though it doesn't have the power I would like, I assume a fresnel lens would bring it close enough to meet my needs. One concern is the specification of "Full TTL at all apertures using proper Metz module.' My camera can't support TTL for an off camera flash, so can the flash still provide proper 'auto' exposures if I set the flash and my camera for f/4 for example? Does the flash also allow me to set the ISO of the film equivalent I'm using?

In a previous post you mentioned a laser pointer to assist with auto-focus. I thought at first you were joking, but decided to try it just in case. I was able to get my S602 to autofocus with the laser pointer only once in about fifteen trys - and that time I had to very PRECISELY align the pointer with the center of the AF crosshair at full zoom. Do you know of a product out there that would provide an effective AF illumination beam for those (non-TTL) cameras like mine that omitted that feature?

Thanks,
Tri
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Old Dec 8, 2002, 9:30 PM   #10
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Tri,
About using a laser pointer for AF assist, check here :
http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4143

About the Metz 45, my 45CT-4 is the predecessor of the CL-4, the only difference is a led ready light instead of a neon on mine. Everything else are identical.
http://www.metz.de/1_metz_2000/index.html

Telephoto attachment 45 – 33 :
http://www.metz.de/1_metz_2000/m_pag...name=mecablitz



With this you nearly double the GN ( ie ~~ 90 meters) with a full coverage at 120mm focal and up , ie 11/19 degrees coverage.
I think the 45 series Metz are excellent , my old 45CT-1 even was reputed to be THE flash for wedding photography in the old time.

You can also get a used 45CT/CL-4 , which is not that difficult because of their popularity (around 200 box, I even saw once here one 45CT-4 at 200 Can$ !) and save some bucks to get a Metz fresnel ( which is hard to find in the used stuff )

About the auto-aperture mode, the 45CL-4 give you 6 auto-aperture settings f2.8,4,5.6,8,11,16 , and manual full, ½ , ¼, W (winder mode , keep up close to 5fps although rated at 2 fps)
About the ISO reference, you have the “classic” circular dial on the flash.

PDF manual of 45CL-4 here:
http://212.87.16.223/METZ/mecablitz45cl4.pdf

BTW, only a few flashgun offer the second tube in the front, excellent when you use the main tube in bouncing .
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