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Old May 7, 2003, 8:58 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by sjms
basicly the point is if you are to delibrately purchase a nikon branded strobe like my sb28 which i use for my F5 and expect to get anything more than basic functionality out of it you would be wasting a considerable sum of money. the only camera integrated function like you said is the firing sequence start to finish. any basic strobe does that. the other more refining functions are nonfunctional. and those are the things you dropped the $$$ for.

i used my $300+ sb28 and my back then $50 vivitar interchangeably with my 990/sk900 bracket assy and they function no different.

so why would you spend the money on a nikon(panasonic) strobe?
Actually your Vivitar flash can't give you the benefit of fill-in flash instantly (outdoor) without some other useful tools such as the handheld flash meter, without the meter you must know several important data from your flash to do the manual calculation for the proper exposure, even more important if you use more than 1 flash for fill in, sometimes will be impossible to do that manually. This is one of the important functions that make your SB-28 a better tool than your Vivitar flash. I use the SB-28 most of the time when shooting outdoor and I can carry my studio flash system with me, and this feature comes in very handy, there some other features and benefits that the SB-28 can work with your F-5 and on the other hand, the Vivitar flash can't.

On the final words, all the flashes (hot shoes), dedicated or not, regardless brand name or non brand name, they are useful tools, depending pretty much on you to tell them what to do, some of them have more convenient features to help you get the job done quicker and more simple. But your point of view on this issue is fully noticed. Do you want to pay extra money for those features or not? You probably won't but for others with limited knowledge about how flash works, they probably prefer to pay for that.
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Old May 7, 2003, 10:11 AM   #12
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The 5700, like all of its siblings, does have a flash sensor in the lower-left corner of the small flash.
This is not TTL is it? It's just auto with 'start/stop', and all automatic flashes do this :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's semantic, but TTL is "Through The Lens" and yes the distance info from the lens is fed to the camera for computation to fine tune the flash burts. Check the Minolta (even the D7's), the Canon, and may be that's what Nikon is refering to as 3D as well (film or digital!).

As long as the sensor stay outside of the camera and not behind the lens. IT's NOT TTL, OTF or not! BTW, TTL metering is useful even without flash (ie 90% of the time), so if you have a front sensor then may be you're not getting it either ops: ops: ops:
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Old May 7, 2003, 10:29 AM   #13
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i think it's down to the original question. which nikon strobe to put on a 5000?

ans: any of them will BASICALLY work but the functionallity will be redundant beyond firing the flash. zoom and such will be handled by your fingers and knowledge of the unit you decide to use.

how much money do you want to spend on one?
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Old May 7, 2003, 2:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Which Nikon Speedlight Can I Use on My CoolPIX 5000?

[/quote]
Technically Tuanokc is incorrect, I am afraid. If he were correct, it would not be possible for me to have the images in the TTL flash section of my 950/990/995/4500 user guide because they were taken with the flash in the TTL mode and the camera in the aperture-priority mode. Moreover, you are wrong about the 5700. The 5700, like all of its siblings, does have a flash sensor in the lower-left corner of the small flash.

CK
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam
Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500 user guide[/quote]

You said it yourself bubba, having a sensor on the camera body(coolpix 5000) and the internal flash must be popped up so that the camera's photocell can measure the flash output of the external flash(coolpix 5700), you call that TTL? Holly macro! So how does the automatic flash work? Where is the original idea of TTL flash that the flash sees the subject the same way the lens does, so they have to put the flash sensor behind the lens? And later technology adding the distant of camera to subject data from the lens to camera CPU for final calculation of proper exposure makes TTL more accurate . I rest my case. Technically I'm incorrect as you said.
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Old May 7, 2003, 5:14 PM   #15
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Actually the folks @ dpReview too... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Feel free to disagree if you still insist you are correct and many people on www.dpreview.com, myself included, are wrong.
http://www.moose395.net/howto/flash.html
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Old May 7, 2003, 7:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by NHL
Actually the folks @ dpReview too... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Feel free to disagree if you still insist you are correct and many people on www.dpreview.com, myself included, are wrong.
http://www.moose395.net/howto/flash.html
Just go there and do a search. Then, you will see most forum goers of www.dpreview.com, especially those who participating the Nikon Talk thread, do not agree with your point. By the way, if you cannot be convinced by a sound theoretical explanation, no one can convince you. Try Tom Hogan's site or his book for a deeper discussion of flash.

CK
http://ww.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam
Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500 user guide
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Old May 7, 2003, 8:21 PM   #17
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What 'sound theoretical explanation' is that? Just screw on an ND filter in front of that lens and we all know right away the real Through-The-Lens vs the TTL wanabee P/S! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just go right to the source: http://www.nikonusa.com/slrlc/main.h...lossary&topic=

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TTL Auto Flash

Automatic flash output control through the lens (TTL). The camera's light sensor measures flash light through the lens, as reflected by the subject...
May be you should 'educate' yourself first before preaching to other people:
http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/flashtec6.htm
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Old May 8, 2003, 12:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by NHL
What 'sound theoretical explanation' is that? Just screw on an ND filter in front of that lens and we all know right away the real Through-The-Lens vs the TTL wanabee P/S! :lol: :lol: :lol:
You mixed up the concepts of TTL-flash metering and TTL-flash control. Please re-read my post and you will see the differences. What you did is showing a Coolpix camera does not have TTL-flash metering, which does not deduce the fact that Coolpix cameras do have TTL-flash control. Again, let me remind you that TTL flash operation has two components: (1) the flash must recognize the TTL protocol sent by the camera - TTL-flash control, and (2) the way of the sender determining when to send which signal -- TTL-flash metering. As long as a TTL-capable flash can receive and respond the TTL-flash signals, it DOES NOT matter who is sending the signals. And, this is the meaning of a TTL-compatible flash.

Can you show to us that the Coolpix cameras do not have TTL-flash control? Don't think you can. Sorry, I have to stop here and let the other readers to decide. Or, may be you can get a good electronic flash textbook and verify if you are right. Bye! :lol:

CK
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Old May 8, 2003, 6:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shene
You mixed up the concepts of TTL-flash metering and TTL-flash control...
I don't think so... two other persons on this thread have proved you wrong! You're mixing up AUTOMATIC-flash control and TTL-flash control, setting the control on the flash to TTL doesn't make it so! Any Nikon dedicated flash can do this even from 3rd party.


May be you read too many textbooks and not enough practice, please check up on what the 'D' stand for:
Quote:
The distance information is obtained from a Nikkor AFD lens for the camera metering software to fine tune the flash illumination (or duration). However, the 'D' in D-TTL and DX is not about distance. It is about DIGITAL! Since a D-SLR camera has no film plane to perform OTF flash metering, the traditional TTL procedure does not work. Hence, Nikon came up with a new TTL flash metering algorithm for their digital SLR cameras (i.e., D-TTL), and this is the reason that D-TTL is not available on any film camera (because a film camera does not need it).
http://www.nikon-euro.com/nikoneuro%...%5Fen%5F20.htm

Distance info from the lens is not used hey? It's used by both digital and film only on newer 'D' enabled lenses that can provide this info! May be it's just the Coolpixes line, where everyone here has already said that any cheaper dedicated flash would have worked just as well! Are you asking the buyer here to ante for the expensive TTL-features that his P/S can never be able to fully use?
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Old May 8, 2003, 7:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by NHL
[Distance info from the lens is not used hey? It's used by both digital and film only on newer 'D' enabled lenses that can provide this info! May be it's just the Coolpixes line where everyone here has already said that any cheaper automatic flashes would have worked just as well!
I am not going to respond the flash question. Just add one more thing. Technically, "AUTOMATIC" flash means the flash controls the duration rather than by the camera. Nikon has created so many strange terms that confuse many people (e.g., micro vs macro). If you feel you are right, please continue to do so.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that I never said D-TTL does not use distance. I only pointed out that the D in D-TTL and DX is for digital.

Have a nice day. Discussion ends, period, because I don't think this type of discussion (or argument) is very constructive and helpful to other people.

CK
F2AS, F3/MD4, F5, F100, N80, Contax RTS II, Hassy 501CM, Hassy 2000FC
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