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Old Aug 11, 2006, 11:34 AM   #1
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I am using a Nikon dedicated SB-600 flash to trigger Vivitar DF-200 Slave flash. As i have a learning mode on DF-200 I am able to ignore the pre-flashe, though i need to make the flash learn every time i switch it off. I have following 3 questions.

1. I know that there will be a pre-flash when using a digital camara's built-in flash. But will it be the same when we use a External dedicated flash (like Nikon Sb-600) or Non dedicated Flash (like Sunpak 383 super). Recently when i tried to trigger df-200 with sb-600 then i have learnt that there is a pre-flash even when using an external dedicated flash sb-600. So i would like to if there will be a pre-flash when using a non-dedicated flash (like sunpak 383 super). If there is a No pre-flash with Non dedicated Flash (like Sunpak 383 super) then i would like to buy one to trigger my slave DF-200, so that there will no need for me to make it learn every time i switch it off.

2. I think Sunpak 383 super comes with a PC cord, so using a PC cord will not result with a pre-flash ? and using a PC cord can we use the flash with out mounting on the hotshoe ?

3. I also would like to knowhow others are able to use slave flashes to ignore the pre-flash because on most of the slave flashes i don't see the learning mode which i have on Vivitar Df-200.
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Old Aug 11, 2006, 12:37 PM   #2
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vsrinu30 wrote:
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1. ... So i would like to if there will be a pre-flash when using a non-dedicated flash (like sunpak 383 super). If there is a No pre-flash with Non dedicated Flash (like Sunpak 383 super) then i would like to buy one to trigger my slave DF-200, so that there will no need for me to make it learn every time i switch it off.

No, non-dedicated flashes operate only on a "trigger" signal from the camera to "start", there is no provision for "stop", thus , they can not be stopped to provide a "diminished dose" needed in preflash. So you can hook a generic flash to trigger your DF-200, or any other generic flashes with an ordinary "flash cell".



vsrinu30 wrote:
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2. I think Sunpak 383 super comes with a PC cord, so using a PC cord will not result with a pre-flash ? and using a PC cord can we use the flash with out mounting on the hotshoe ?
You can trigger any generic flashes with a sync cord away from camera. The sync cord is the equivalent of the center pin of your camera hotshoe.(If you mount the flash on the hotshoe, there is no need to use the sync cord)


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3. I also would like to how others are able to use slave flashes to ignore the pre-flash because on most of the slave flashes i don't see the learning mode which i have on Vivitar Df-200.
Some slave flash have a kind of switch to choose to ignore 1,2,3 … preflashes

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Old Aug 11, 2006, 12:53 PM   #3
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Kcan, Thanks for you reply.

I thinkVivitar SL-2, Peanut slaves, Morries slave, Sunpak DS 20does not seem to have any thing toignore 1,2,3 … preflashes and i think some people are still using them as the slaves for digi cams. So any thoughts ?

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam...est/slave.html
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Old Aug 11, 2006, 2:20 PM   #4
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vsrinu30 wrote:
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Kcan, Thanks for you reply.

I thinkVivitar SL-2, Peanut slaves, Morries slave, Sunpak DS 20does not seem to have any thing toignore 1,2,3 … preflashes and i think some people are still using them as the slaves for digi cams. So any thoughts ?

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/Potpourri/Slave-Firing-Test/slave.html
Look at the cameras being used for the tests. Note that your D50 is not one of them. ;-)

Some of the Nikon Coolpix models have a built in sensor to measure reflected light during the exposure, just like an Auto Thyristor flash does, and don't require a preflash (instead, they terminate the flash output when they see the appropriate amount of reflected light for the camera settings used).

Most Digital Cameras use a preflash instead of measuring reflected light during the exposure via a built in sensor. Your D50 fall into this category (uses a preflash to help determine the length of the main flash burst needed).



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Old Aug 11, 2006, 2:39 PM   #5
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JimC,

Sunpak 383 super is it a Auto Thyristor flash ?

I am thinking of getting one as it is saidthat there will be no pre-flash using this as a external flash for my Nikon D50 to trigger my Vivitar DF-200 slave.
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Old Aug 11, 2006, 2:54 PM   #6
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JimC wrote:
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Look at the cameras being used for the tests. Note that your D50 is not one of them. ;-)

Some of the Nikon Coolpix models have a built in sensor to measure reflected light during the exposure, just like an Auto Thyristor flash does, and don't require a preflash (instead, they terminate the flash output when they see the appropriate amount of reflected light for the camera settings used).

Yeah, it's the case of the coolpix 950 for example, any generic flashes plus a cheap slave cell (no preflash compatible) will do

vsrinu30, some (if not all, I don't know) of the flashes mentionned are not "digital compatible", but just triggered by the first burst
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Old Aug 11, 2006, 3:05 PM   #7
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vsrinu30 wrote:
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JimC,

Sunpak 383 super is it a Auto Thyristor flash ?

I am thinking of getting one as it is saidthat there will be no pre-flash using this as a external flash for my Nikon D50 to trigger my Vivitar DF-200 slave.
Yes. The Sunpak 383 Super is an Auto Thryistor type flash, and it has a built in sensor to measure reflected light during the exposure. It will not use a preflash.

It's got 3 Auto Aperture Ranges, as well as manual power settings (full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16). You'd need to use the camera in manual exposure mode, setting the camera's aperture to match the settings for the flash in normal flash shooting, selecting an appropriate shutter speed for what you're trying to accomplish (for example, mix of ambient light and flash). Then, when the flash sees enough reflected light for the aperture range selected, it terminates it's output. There is no communication between the camera and the flash, other than to trigger it.

But, if you're adding a slave into the mix, that will complicate it. Regardless of how you plan to use it, you'd need to experment with both flash and camera settings for best results.

'You may want to consider if you'd be better off using your SB600 as the slave, triggering it via an SU-800 commander instead. But, I don't know enough about Nikon's flash system to give you pros and cons of that solution.

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Old Aug 12, 2006, 9:24 AM   #8
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JimC wrote:
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But, if you're adding a slave into the mix, that will complicate it. Regardless of how you plan to use it, you'd need to experment with both flash and camera settings for best results.

'You may want to consider if you'd be better off using your SB600 as the slave, triggering it via an SU-800 commander instead. But, I don't know enough about Nikon's flash system to give you pros and cons of that solution.
I am planning to use Sunpak 383 super mainly for bounce capabilities to light-up my subjects and then as i already have a slave Vivitar DF-200 i am thinking of using it to bounce or to light-upthe dark back grounds of the subjects in indoor (big) rooms.

What you said is absolutely right, i can use SB-600 as the slave, triggering it via an SU-800 commander. As I am on budget,i am looking for a cheaper alternative solutions which will be more manual and bit painful too.
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Old Aug 12, 2006, 9:42 AM   #9
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A number of similar strobes will work exactly the same way as the 383 Super if you're on a tighter budget.

For example, I've got a Sunpak 333 Auto I use now with a KM 5D. It's also got 3 Auto Aperture Ranges + Manual Power Settings, and has tilt, swivel, and a manual zoom head on it (the 383 super is missing the zoom head, but you can get one as an option). I paid $25 for my Sunpak 333 Auto in 10 condition (as new in box) from the used department at B&H. Sometimes, you can find them for around $10 on Ebay.

I've also got a Sunpak 222 Auto for a smaller strobe (GN of around 72 Feet at ISO 100) with 2 Auto Aperture Ranges and tilt (no swivel). I paid $7 for it from keh.com

Other units like the Sunpak 36DX or 433D have similar specs to the 383 Super and my 333 Auto (3 Auto Aperture Ranges, GN of around 120 feet at ISO 100, tilt, swivel, manual power settings). Most of the time, you can find one for around $20 (or less) on Ebay.


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Old Aug 13, 2006, 9:20 AM   #10
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Thanks for all your suggestions. I think I am looking for a similar set-up what you have. Looks like you have 333 autoand 222 auto. I just checked their triggering voltages and I think they will work with my Nikon too.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

Do you suggest 333 over 383. I thought 383 is the lastest to 333 and 222 and thought that i should go with 383. I would like to know how do you trigger your second flash, do you use a PC cord or Wein Peanut Slave ?. Please explain your strobe set-up.
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