Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Fujifilm

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 24, 2004, 12:48 AM   #41
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klyak
What a psycoanalisys for free!!!
I thought I expressed myself - I owned Minolta Dimage 5. For $500.
I changed to S5000 - for the same price. It's a lot of a downgrade for me (with all battery problems of Minolta). In image quality.
A 10 years ago I used to be some kind of a photografer for a couple of years(I had 5th level from 8 - standard professional qualification in Russia) - a simple work for weddings etc... Cameras like Zenit TTL, Kiev 19... Lens like Industar ...
2 years ago I've started almost from 0 with digital cameras. It was a shock of what I got for the same money - for $500 I would buy a really good camera with lens, flash, tripod and bag.
After a Olympus 400D (I threw like 60% pics) I changed immidiately to Dimage 5 (25% of overexposed or so). It was acceptable (for personal use).
Then I red review of FinePix S602 - that it was a bit better match for my need (I never needed more, than 3 MP).
And some evil force made me believe, that new S5000 would have a good dynamic range and more potential flash.
Well, I wrote my own RAW converter for S5000 to study hardware for myself, before signing to that petition.
That camera - a big step back. For 50% of pics I can't help nor with PhotoShop nor with Neat Image. (I tend to wide-angle compositions).
Every cheap camera can do good close-up pics. Even Oly 400D could do it. You can see you face quite recognizoble for all who knows you.
Thing is - in the composition of you and waterfall - people can recognize only the last one for sure.
This is where you can see quality of a camera. It's not important how exactly camera eats details - JPEG artifacts, noise or else. If I can't magnify image without being scared - it's a bad camera, no matter how it looks or features it has.
I've seen some pretty amazing, clean, and detailed outdoor shots with the S5000, so I still don't know where your coming from. Just doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying that the camera is 100% noise free, but those that know how to use it, can come up with some pretty clean shots.

Maybe you had a defective camera, expected way to much, or just didn't learn the finer points of the camera. I just don't know, but I have to agree with most reviews and owners of the S5000, it's a great camera. Don't know what else to say, so I'l l leave it at that....
BigMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 10:12 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zace27
Can S7000 owners sign up too?
We just created a special S7k section in the forum!
veedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 10:18 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klyak
[...]
This is where you can see quality of a camera. It's not important how exactly camera eats details - JPEG artifacts, noise or else. If I can't magnify image without being scared - it's a bad camera, no matter how it looks or features it has.
Hey Klyak Nice to see you're *still* upset after a few months

Man, just change the damn camera! Get a 300D or something... F828, S7000, A1, FZ10, S5000 are in the same pool...too many squeezed megapixels on a tiny sensor => noisy images.

If you truely want quality get a big DSLR and you will have it. Just look at the size of that nice Canon CMOS sensor. Or, better yet...get a refurbished/secondhand S1/S2... I hear they're selling well on e-bay this time of year.

Cheers mate!
veedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 10:53 AM   #44
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
If you truely want quality get a big DSLR
F828, S7000, A1, FZ10, S5000 are in the same pool[
Thanx. This is exactly what I've decided to do. I don't agree, that I have to search for a strong points with camera - I think, I have to search for views, camera have to do the rest.
There's no problem with Fuji - I was wrong with the price barrier. It's like $1000 for a digital fotography.
I think it's becourse dig. cam. market is growing. They can sell any bullshit and always will be enough idiots to be happy with it. It's need a crisis, like that was in IT industry to normalize prices, IMHO.
Klyak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 11:07 AM   #45
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
I've seen some pretty amazing, clean, and detailed outdoor shots with the S5000
I did photos of a windsurfing event (not a Formula 1, really), using tripode and famous 380mm zoom. Well, people could recognize each other only by sail colours. 6MP couldn't help. More, then half pics went directly to garbage.
I've tried to film a street tango dancers at 8 pm on video, than make some shots, using 800 ISO on a well illuminated place - with the merely same result.
If somebody is interested, I will go someday and repeat this experience just to post it here.
Klyak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 1:02 PM   #46
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by veedee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klyak
[...]
This is where you can see quality of a camera. It's not important how exactly camera eats details - JPEG artifacts, noise or else. If I can't magnify image without being scared - it's a bad camera, no matter how it looks or features it has.
Hey Klyak Nice to see you're *still* upset after a few months

Man, just change the darn camera! Get a 300D or something... F828, S7000, A1, FZ10, S5000 are in the same pool...too many squeezed megapixels on a tiny sensor => noisy images.

If you truely want quality get a big DSLR and you will have it. Just look at the size of that nice Canon CMOS sensor. Or, better yet...get a refurbished/secondhand S1/S2... I hear they're selling well on e-bay this time of year.

Cheers mate!
I tried out the Canon rebel for a week before I bought the Fuji S7000. What I seen was a good camera, but nothing special in my opinion. THe "Starter" lens they ship with the rebel is a joke. Canon uses a ton of in-camera noise compression, where Fuji uses much less, so the fuji does need more PP. The rebel also does a poor job with indoor flash shots, most will be underexposed, and this is a well known problem. It's far from an ideal camera. Maybe the next "under a thousand" model will be.

The details in the pictures from both are very good. Shooting in raw format with the Fuji, then doing PP turned out pictures about as clean as the Rebel, but for much less money, and the Fuji has a lot more features than the Rebel. The Fujis are all-in-one cameras, and this is important to realize. It's give and take to get all of these features in one package. Expensive DSLRs are going to turn out the best photos, of course, and you pay for it. But I am surprised at the increasing number of pros that say they prefer the Fuji S series for general shooting, because of the quality the cameras produce, without having to lug a large slr and lenses around. They will use their expensive slrs when they need the best shots possible. I can gladly give you links to these pros comments about the subject.
Over on Dpreview.com, a good number of both professional, and amature photographers are starting to buy, use, and post their works in the forums from the line of Fuji cameras you just mentioned. A person can not help but be stunned at what these cameras are capable of in the right hands. These are not over 1000 dollar cameras, but the pictures I am seeing look like they came from one. New freeware RAW converters are starting to pop-up, that do a much better job then the one Fuji provided, and are also one of the tools that the professionals are using to obtain these pictures. Of course the Rebel has its advantages also. Direct focus and zooming, changable lens, ect. I do think the thing is uglier than sin, and is constructed very cheaply.

One thing is for sure. These are both good cameras, and both can turn out excellent pictures in the right hands. I beleive it comes down to what your after, and what your expectations are. Regardless, my complaint was with somebody calling these bad cameras, because there are photos all over the net that prove in the right hands, both cameras are very capable, and in the wrong hands, both can turn out ugly pictures. No way can I say either is a bad camera. When I first bought my S7000, I saw the noise, right away, and read the bad reviews about it. But before jumping ship, I read alot more about it, and found out what and what not to do when shooting with this camera. I learned about the low noise compression, a high jpeg compression that Fuji uses, and how to counter that. Now, I couldn't be happier with the results I am getting. This is me, it might not be you. The ONLY reason I got in on this thread is because of the person calling it the S5000 a "bad camera" It's not. A person can go look at pictures from the Expensive Canon dslrs, and the Fuji S2, and then the Fuji S series, and the Canon A series, and so on. These are ALL very capable camera. I have seen breathtaking shots from a Canon A40! I still beleive that in the end, it comes down to how well you and the camera integrate with each other. That's why some people might get much more out of certain cameras than you or I might, or vice versa. One thing is for sure, being a musician, I seen the same thing happen in the music industry. We get so caught up in hardware and specs, that we almost forget it's an artform, and the "art" is what produces beautiful photos, not hardware alone. Thanks fo reading, my lengthy ramblings. Opinions or bashing is welcome, I can take it
BigMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 3:18 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike
[...]
Thanks fo reading, my lengthy ramblings. Opinions or bashing is welcome, I can take it
Nah, I totally agree.
veedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 3:21 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klyak
Quote:
If you truely want quality get a big DSLR
F828, S7000, A1, FZ10, S5000 are in the same pool[
Thanx. This is exactly what I've decided to do. I don't agree, that I have to search for a strong points with camera - I think, I have to search for views, camera have to do the rest.
There's no problem with Fuji - I was wrong with the price barrier. It's like $1000 for a digital fotography.
I think it's becourse dig. cam. market is growing. They can sell any bullshit and always will be enough idiots to be happy with it. It's need a crisis, like that was in IT industry to normalize prices, IMHO.
Off-topic, but where's the IT crisis? Prices in IT are f**ing unbelievable sometimes. Trust me, I'm 3 months to get my engineering diploma and I've seen a lot in this field. Marketing rules us all!

The thing with $1000 is like this... if you got the money, you buy it. If you're poor and you don't, you will buy something cheaper.
I'm from Romania, and we don't have the best economical situation, but I don't complain about spending $1000 if I *REALLY* want to buy a good camera. On the other hand, I spent like 400euros or less on S5000 and I'm darn happy that I did.

So, it all depends how you see it... I don't see $1000 as a big amount.
veedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 3:24 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klyak
Quote:
I've seen some pretty amazing, clean, and detailed outdoor shots with the S5000
I did photos of a windsurfing event (not a Formula 1, really), using tripode and famous 380mm zoom. Well, people could recognize each other only by sail colours. 6MP couldn't help. More, then half pics went directly to garbage.
I've tried to film a street tango dancers at 8 pm on video, than make some shots, using 800 ISO on a well illuminated place - with the merely same result.
If somebody is interested, I will go someday and repeat this experience just to post it here.
Sorry mate, but I will have to disagree again... After having it for almost 5 months and after seeing what users at www.s5000.net can do with it, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you must be a poor photographer if you can't take good pictures with Fuji Finepix S5000z.
I mean, all of us ('the others') CAN... and it doesn't feel like twilight zone to me

But like I said before... you get what you paid for... spend more, you get more... It's the way this society works, even if we like it or not.
veedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 4:10 PM   #50
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
But like I said before... you get what you paid for... spend more, you get more... It's the way this society works, even if we like it or not.
Yea, I thought PDAs have prices like $500, till I bought Dell X5 for $200.
Klyak is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:35 AM.