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Old Jan 24, 2004, 4:20 PM   #51
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Off-topic, but where's the IT crisis? Prices in IT are f**ing unbelievable sometimes. Trust me, I'm 3 months to get my engineering diploma and I've seen a lot in this field. Marketing rules us all!
2001-2002. Worst year.
I recieved it 5 years ago, and I can tell - there are lot of changes in the area. Basicaly with consulting firms.
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spending $1000 if I *REALLY* want to buy a good camera
Sorry man, the most expensive (important) thing in the camera - lens. If someone tells you that electronics or so - check your pockets, his hands my be in there.
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Old Jan 24, 2004, 4:31 PM   #52
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seeing what users at www.s5000.net can do with it,
I reviewing it now. And I wander, how you can tell that photo is good if they offer it in 640x480? I can't, really. And would be pleased of learning know-how.
Anyway - I'm definitely not an "art" photographer. "Art" picture can be done with any camera or without any.
I'm standing a bit more close to the ground - I need a possibility to see a moment I've liked more, than one time. And I have to still like it when reviewing.
That simple.
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Old Jan 24, 2004, 4:57 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Klyak
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seeing what users at www.s5000.net can do with it,
I reviewing it now. And I wander, how you can tell that photo is good if they offer it in 640x480? I can't, really. And would be pleased of learning know-how.
Anyway - I'm definitely not an "art" photographer. "Art" picture can be done with any camera or without any.
I'm standing a bit more close to the ground - I need a possibility to see a moment I've liked more, than one time. And I have to still like it when reviewing.
That simple.
Photography is an art form. Composition is an artform. There would be no sense in you buying anything but a fully automatic camera otherwise.
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Old Jan 24, 2004, 6:11 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Klyak
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seeing what users at www.s5000.net can do with it,
I reviewing it now. And I wander, how you can tell that photo is good if they offer it in 640x480? I can't, really. And would be pleased of learning know-how.
Anyway - I'm definitely not an "art" photographer. "Art" picture can be done with any camera or without any.
I'm standing a bit more close to the ground - I need a possibility to see a moment I've liked more, than one time. And I have to still like it when reviewing.
That simple.
They're not. Check webpages and click on images to get the full size.

Why do you need to view them 100% on the screen?

You either print them, and the quality is EXCELLENT (I did, and paper != screen so much!!!), either view them "fit on screen mode".

I agree with BigMike, photography *IS* 99% art. Doesn't matter if you're shooting a bug, a rock or people... composition says it all.

It's really interrsting because you said you worked with film cameras in the past. How can you criticize the resulted pictures if you're just SNAPping and SHOOTing? Film cameras involve a lot of work to get a good picture, so does digital... the tools are just different. Nowadays you work with RAW converters, dynamic range, levels, RGB curves and so on. You can't expect miracles if you just point&shoot !

I heard you complaining about noise... get something like NeatImage. Colors... get something like Photoshop. JPEG compression? Doesn't matter that much... I had a Canon A40 (and if you go to the Canon forum, everybody will say that Canon Ax are *the best* in quality in their range) and a Canon picture was like 1.2MB at 2MP and now I have like 900k at 3MP still the pictures are the same in terms of quality.

If you want more, you won't get more < $500. You need to spend more. I didn't say that electronics are expensive. They're not. I said that we live in a world were marketing RULES.

I don't wanna call you a troll, but when 99 out of 100 people say "it works" and one doesn't, then maybe that one is the problem and not "the thing". :roll:
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Old Jan 24, 2004, 6:13 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Klyak
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Off-topic, but where's the IT crisis? Prices in IT are f**ing unbelievable sometimes. Trust me, I'm 3 months to get my engineering diploma and I've seen a lot in this field. Marketing rules us all!
2001-2002. Worst year.
I recieved it 5 years ago, and I can tell - there are lot of changes in the area. Basicaly with consulting firms.
Maybe in your area, here IT has been going up since 1990... prices are up, sallaries are up, everything is up. No crisis at all... good money comming out of everywhere.
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 2:34 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Klyak
I reviewing it now. And I wander, how you can tell that photo is good if they offer it in 640x480? I can't, really. And would be pleased of learning know-how...
Actually every tool/instrument has its own limitations. You have to use it within them. In simple words, the photos S5000 takes are best to use for:

1. Web galleries with reduced size

2. Viewing on screen, not at 100% but fit to screen (the best is 1024x768 15" LCD at 1/4 of 3MP resolution yielding a 50% view)

3. Hard copies of up to A4 with post processing depends on personal expectation (which I think you have a high one )

Viewing on screen at above 50% will start to exhibit the noise, rough edges and jpeg artifacts of the photos. The same if printing at overly large. You can't blame this when they squeeze 3MP and a 10x optical zoom into such a small body, coupled with Fuji's inferior compression algorithm.

I just compared some shots of S5000 with those from the old Olympus C2020Z and C2100UZ (both 2MP) having higher compression with smaller file size proportionally, the latter were having sharper and cleaner edges with minimal visible artifacts. But considering the size of C2100UZ (due to earlier generation of larger CCD), I still prefer S5000 and I'd use it within its limits.

Now the only thing we can hope for for the S5000 is some firmware updates if it ever possible happens... besides the lengthy route of RAW processing for amateur like me...
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 4:41 AM   #57
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To be honest, I'm waiting for the next Fuji camera in this category (if there'll ever be one). I'm not going to give away the S5000 for any other camera out there right now. How a camera looks and feels is also important for me.
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 10:15 AM   #58
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1. Web galleries with reduced size

2. Viewing on screen, not at 100% but fit to screen (the best is 1024x768 15" LCD at 1/4 of 3MP resolution yielding a 50% view)
I'm fully agree. But for 3 MP camera? Sorry, 1024x768 - 0,8MP.
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 10:35 AM   #59
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You either print them, and the quality is EXCELLENT
I thought I made it clear - no PRO will use words like exellent, superb etc... It has the same effect, like putting - I KNOW NOTHING.

We shouldn't сounterpose our personal opinions - should talk in professional terms. Otherwise it will be purposless chat.

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I agree with BigMike, photography *IS* 99% art
So, a millions of people, that bought a camera once - already artists?

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Photography is an art form. Composition is an artform.
Any of you visited some courses of painting or photography?
There are basic rules, every chimpanzee could do it after little training.
Art is in seeking views, not making pics, though it has little in common with photography, main objective of one is - don't spoile that moment. It's much more craft, than art.
If you have some doubt's - read Dan Margulis about digital methods of colour correcting and how his green-blind student could outperform some pro's.
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 10:37 AM   #60
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It's really interrsting because you said you worked with film cameras in the past. How can you criticize the resulted pictures if you're just SNAPping and SHOOTing? Film cameras involve a lot of work to get a good picture, so does digital...
Might have sense in defining - what means GOOD for you and than we will compare our definitions.
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