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Old Jan 25, 2004, 11:09 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Klyak
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You either print them, and the quality is EXCELLENT
I thought I made it clear - no PRO will use words like exellent, superb etc... It has the same effect, like putting - I KNOW NOTHING.

We shouldn't сounterpose our personal opinions - should talk in professional terms. Otherwise it will be purposless chat.

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I agree with BigMike, photography *IS* 99% art
So, a millions of people, that bought a camera once - already artists?

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Photography is an art form. Composition is an artform.
Any of you visited some courses of painting or photography?
There are basic rules, every chimpanzee could do it after little training.
Art is in seeking views, not making pics, though it has little in common with photography, main objective of one is - don't spoile that moment. It's much more craft, than art.
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I think you just explained your problem. If you find photography to simply be a craft, and not also an artform, then your going to get about as much out of it as that chimpanzee you mentioned. Being a musician, I can easily compare this to some peope I have known in the past, that were always blaming their lack of talent on their equipment. They were constantly trading in their instruments, for something newer and better, thinking that would make them a better musician. It didn't. Some of the best musicians I have ever played with also have some of the oldest equipment. I'm not saying the equipment doesn't matter, because it does, but only to a degree. The old saying still stands: A good photographer can get good pictures from a cheap camera, and a bad photographer can get bad pictures from an expensive camera. Even with todays do-everything digital cameras, not much has changed.
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 3:56 PM   #62
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that were always blaming their lack of talent on their equipment
Haven't you even seen my photos?
Have I ever complained, that I can't make photo's I want?
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 6:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klyak
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that were always blaming their lack of talent on their equipment
Haven't you even seen my photos?
Have I ever complained, that I can't make photo's I want?
I really don't know what your whinning about, to be honest. If you don't like the camera, go buy something else, and leave those that do like, to enjoy it. It's a simple thing. Goodbye, and good luck.
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Old Jan 25, 2004, 6:20 PM   #64
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I really don't know what your whinning about
As I told - go to some basic photo courses or read a book.
Till that I can't see a reason in futher conversation.
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 6:01 AM   #65
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This is getting nowhere...



Klyak, the point that you don't like S5k has been made.

The point that OTHERS DO like S5k has also been made.

There are pros and beginners on each side, so let's leave it there, there's no place further for this discussion. Besides the purpose of this thread was about something else

I invite you all to come at www.s5000.net and join our S5k/S7k photo contests.

Cheers!
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 8:03 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Klyak
I'm fully agree. But for 3 MP camera? Sorry, 1024x768 - 0,8MP.
I don't get you quite clearly.

What I meant was, I always find that displaying a photo at 50% of original size (I'm referring to LCD) would give the best view. I agree that this is not scientific at all or it may even be totally wrong. Below 30% view, details will be lost and the image deteriorates (jaggy lines etc). And above 70% view will exhibit artifacts and noise if any. 50% view is the best balance to display most details while hiding the artifacts and noise.

So, a 15" 1024x768 LCD is best to display 3MP photos while a 17" 1280x960 LCD is best for 4.7MP (2560x1920) photos and so on... Do you think that there's a relation between image resolution and LCD's resolution in the resizing algorithm in order to display the best full screen view? I ever asked this in other forums but nobody could give clear answer.

Also maybe the whole thing is different for analog CRT.
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 8:53 AM   #67
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Interresting point made by Artur today...
http://www.s5000.net/forums/yaBB/cgi...num=1075117614
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 11:09 AM   #68
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Klyak, the point that you don't like S5k has been made.
That wasn't point. Really - only reason I don't like it - it's unpredictable. It can do a good pic and then spoil next 3. And throwing 50% of pics - not a good ratio. Surely, if you're doing some turist postal cards - nice buildings on shining sun - it willn't fail you. I'm talking about catching moments in the real life.
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Besides the purpose of this thread was about something else
Well, point for me was - well all forums crying with "superbs" "Iloveits" etc. - it's a difficult to choose a camera. There's always have to be some critic. Preferrable - with some technical details. Did you see - how much views have this thread? :roll:
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 1:34 PM   #69
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Yes, I agree, but IMHO there are two categories of users:

1) users who look, read, search for information before they buy

2) users who just buy

1) will always be satisfied, because they did some research, they know how much other cameras in that category (for instance, 10x zoom cameras) cost.

2) will either love it to bits, cause all they needed was "something" (eg. novice users) either complain non-stop about it.

I'm 1). This camera was worth spending 400euros, counting that I sold my old Canon A40 for 300euros. I was going to buy S602, but then I saw that S5000 and S7000 will come out... did a little research, found out that S5k is smaller, has more zoom and it's cheaper than a *BRAND* new S602 (sorry, I'm not into refurbished/second hand too much...I like warranties).

So no matter how much you or anyone else complains about the camera, I (and others like me) will still come at you and say that you're wrong, and that S5000 *IS* worth the money if you *KNOW BEFORE* what you are buying.

S5000 is not a gift from God, but hey! Surprise! It wasn't meant to be!

For me, upgrading with 100euros from Canon A40 to Fuji S5000 was the best deal I could have made!

Yes, we could all agree that Fuji's marketing department sucks, that the camera has some flaws (hmm, I remember how much S602 was spit at when it came out, and also that very stupid issue about not remembering file numbers).

But we also agree that we've seen quality photos taken with S5000. People have printed A4, and they said it was great! (I printed 10x15 and it beats Canon's A40 attempts). Looking on a monitor at 1024x768 or even 1600x1200 will yeld good colors and good image quality.

So what else could we expect from a camera selling at less than $300 (in USA at least) nowadays? Compare it with the other cameras in its range, and you will see that it *IS* a good investment. That... if you're not a nose picker on image quality and noise.

I do not expect to see *ANY* camera that came out last year (non-DSLR) with good quality and no noise! Why? Mainly because the digital compaines have been pushing megapixels up our throats...camera sizes the same, more megapixels... => noise (not exactly, but you get my point).

Light != Electrons. You just can't squeeze more MPs and get the same image quality. That's why you still hear nostalgics with older cameras that had the same sensor size like ours today, complaining about todays cameras vs the old ones (in terms of image quality).

No matter what we do, things will be pushed even more into that direction. People won't quit until they see 10Megapixel sensors in a camera the size of S5000 (I doubt it's possible, but who knows?)...

Hope it makes any sense...
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Old Jan 26, 2004, 3:45 PM   #70
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I'm 1). This camera was worth spending 400euros, counting that I sold my old Canon A40 for
Well, that's it - you did upgrade. I did downgrade from older camera. You happy - I'm not. And Argentina - not USA, 300D has price like 2100U$D here, and no warranty for new models - I hope Canon will bring it in this year oficially.
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