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Old Aug 26, 2010, 11:52 PM   #1
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Default Would 8MP HS10 be better camera?

After living with the HS10 and reading much about the FZ100, it seems many of the complaints directed at the two cameras could have been avoided if less pixels had been jammed onto the sensor. I'm not looking for general opinions here. I'd really like to hear only the opinions from those with technical expertise. Would less pixels have made a real world difference?
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 11:54 PM   #2
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It is still early to really tell how the fz100 is, but the HS10 is a very good camera.

But if you look at the panasonic zs3 vs the zs7. The zs3 with the lower pixel count does take a better photo imho. So I would lean toward the HS10 with the 8mp.
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 11:01 AM   #3
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It's something that we've been saying for a long time and it is true, a lower pixel density will give a better result than a high pixel density.

This is why the full frame cameras are producing better results regarding noise than small sensor cameras.

The problem is marketing and lack of understanding of the common user, they think more is better. My old 8mp Canon 30D for example will give better results than my new Panasonic FT2 14mp camera by a very very long way as the sensor is larger and the pixels are much much larger allowing them to be far more sensitive and accurate.
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 12:06 PM   #4
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Does shooting the HS10 @ 5MP result in better IQ than shooting @ 10MP?

When you shoot at half the resolution, are you effectively lowering pixel density OR is the camera just processing the 10MP to a 5MP image?
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 12:15 PM   #5
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Not sure how the fuji works, it might pixel bin so you just get the same quality but smaller size, or might pixel blend (not sure of exact terminology) which results in a bit better accuracy, but still not as good as a lower density sensor.
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 12:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2raj View Post
Does shooting the HS10 @ 5MP result in better IQ than shooting @ 10MP?
...
I don't have the HS10 but I can tell you this...I recently bought the Panasonic ZS6 (returned) and ZS7. It's a 12 MP camera and I noticed that the image was a bit on the soft side and very noisy. So, I lowered it to the next one down (8 MP) and I find images to be much crispier. So, I shoot at 8 MP. IMO, for sensors 1/2.3" or smaller 10 MP is the limit. Squeezing more and more MP on those tiny sensors has become a marketing gimmick more than anything.
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 3:22 AM   #7
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Does shooting the HS10 @ 5MP result in better IQ than shooting @ 10MP?
The reason that P&S cameras can't make good use of high pixel-counts is that small sensors mean small pixels, and small pixels need very high quality, large aperture (to avoid diffraction effects) lenses.

Apart from this, small pixels mean more noise.

Generally, most P&S cameras won't have the lenses to be able to make good use of pixel-counts higher than about 5MP. So, any increase in pixels will merely increase noise.

My P&S camera is an F70EXR, which has a special 10MP sensor that allows pairing of pixels, so that operating in 5MP mode will allow the camera to simply combine the outputs from each pixel-pair - almost as if it were a 5MP sensor.

The result ought to be (by my calculations) a reduction in noise by a factor of root-2, or about 30%. And this appears to be the case, as far as I can judge.

Regarding the HS10, which doesn't have the EXR sensor, I would expect the firmware to be able to provide equally good noise reduction for smaller pixel-counts (by using fairly sophisticated techniques). I'd be very surprised if it doesn't.
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 3:32 AM   #8
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Thanks to all who replied. You've confirmed my suspicion that less would have been more. Hopefully, the criticisms that have been leveled at the HS10 and now the FZ100 plus the returns and possibly low sales numbers will convince the companies to look more toward engineering and less at their marketing departments.
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 11:07 AM   #9
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Thanks to all who replied. You've confirmed my suspicion that less would have been more. Hopefully, the criticisms that have been leveled at the HS10 and now the FZ100 plus the returns and possibly low sales numbers will convince the companies to look more toward engineering and less at their marketing departments.
The MP war has become a marketing tool more than anything. "Our cameras offer 2 MP more then yours, says (insert the brand name here)". Even though this subject has been deeply discussed in forums, blogs, sites, etc., there's still a huge number of people who sees it as "more must be better". Canon made a radical move with the G11 reducing its MP from 14 (G10) to 10. You don't see that that often but it should tell us something.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 7:58 PM   #10
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Most people don't realize MPs aren't everything. They just assume higher MP must be better. I rarely shoot above 5MP on my HS10 or SD780; don't need the higher file-size or pixel count.
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