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Old Apr 25, 2011, 9:00 AM   #11
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Hello Lifeforms,

The park, museum photo's were only postprocessed with one point of unsharp mark in Paint Shop Pro. The camera setting for sharpening is standard. I like this best. Looks sharp but not oversharpened.
btw I forgot to mention that I put all my Fuji camera's on minus 1/3 EV. The HS20 also.

Regards,
guus
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 10:43 AM   #12
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Thanks Guus

Thanks for all your settings and experience.

Your image of the dog is without doubt the best I have seen so far between the S100fs, s200exr and the HS20exr, which is quite some stiff competition, especially considering the enhanced focal range of the 20 (meaning that the light is having to go through more layers of glass).

Stunning.
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 9:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guus View Post
Noisereduction high

I like this setting best for outdoor photo's so far.
For indoor I only change the EXR mode to high ISO, low noise, activate the external flash mode and put a TTL flash on it. Nice results
Guus:

I'm confused about your noise settings. Your setting for outdoors is "high" where the light is better and the likelihood of noise is nil. And your setting for noise reduction indoors is "low" where lighting is not as good and noise levels are likely to be higher. Did I understand your settings correctly? The noise settings you indicated seem counterintuitive.

Thanks, Jerry
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Old Apr 26, 2011, 4:13 AM   #14
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Yes, it's a little confusing, but I'm referring to the EXR setting of the camera. There are three as you know, the 16Mp, the EXR D range and the EXR high ISO, low noise.
About the noisereduction levels itself: it is an experiment to set the noise reduction level on high in combination with the probably low ISO when using the camera outdoors (mostly about 100 ISO). I wanted to see if the camera had agressive noisereduction even at that ISO level. It has not as far as I can see. Fine detail remains good. For the effect of noisereduction at a higher ISO level I have not had much experience, but I will find that out. What I can conclude until now is that the noisereduction is doing the job in a clever way, not the same amount at all ISO levels (less at ISO 100, more at higher ISO's).
I think it is a very intelligent camera

Regards,
guus
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Old Apr 26, 2011, 8:30 AM   #15
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Thanks, Guus. I reviewed the pdf manual where "noise reduction" is discussed. Not much is said. There are 3 noise reduction settings, "low, standard, and high." Can noise reduction be turned totally "off?"

I understand that virtually all (or at least most) small sensor cameras exhibit some "smearing" or "water color" effect. I didn't recall that effect on my now 10 year old Sony F707 (5 mp). Is that effect more common on cameras where a high number of megapixels are crammed into a small sensor? Does applied in-camera noise reduction make the smearing better or worse? Under what circumstances have you noticed the smearing effect? With regard to "smearing" how does the HS-20 compare with other current superzooms you may be familiar with?

The camera I am currently using is a 6mp 5-year old Pentax DSLR. I have the HS-20 on order. I'm looking for the convenience of this bridge camera primarily for the zoom range hopefully without sacrificing much quality compared to my current camera. I think I changed lenses 20 times on the trip I took last week with my daughter.

The "heat warning light" issue is resolved in this camera. The two remaining complaints are the smearing (under some circumstances) and the jumpy focusing when zooming, which I hope can be minimized with judicious operation that doesn't go to extremes.

Thanks,
Jerry
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Old Apr 26, 2011, 10:21 AM   #16
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Default Hello Jerry

Hello Jerry,

Smearing and water color effect is for the most part an argument used by SLR fanboys in order to put down the small sensor camera. It's a laugh. I don't know if you visit that DPR site once in a while. The latest development on that site are statements in which is said how bad individual leaves are reproduced by small sensor camera's in a wide angle landscape picture setting. Remembers me of the classic movie "Blow Up " in which a photographer blows up an (analog) photograph in order to reveal a dead body on that photo. The blow up gets very unsharp. Bottom line is: small sensor camera's are bad because they don't reproduce these blown up leaves urtra sharp. You can read on that site: I haven't seen anything from the HS20 that my cell phone can't equal. Same people who came up with this smearing issue say that about the HS20. One can't take them serious but people who say that are not banned for telling lies and spreading misinformation, no they get blessings from the moderaters. So you must see the smearing issue in that perspective. That site has nothing to do with photography. It's a site for mostly lunatic and fanatic psycho disturbed SLR pushers. Sane people leave or got banned.
About the noisereduction: you can't put it entirely off, what you mention low, standard and high are the possibilities.
I know for shure that you will use your HS20 with great pleasure. I do.

Regards,
guus

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Old Apr 26, 2011, 1:34 PM   #17
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Thanks, Guus. Yes. I have noticed that over there. Some very sensitive, touchy folk, too.

So for you, the alleged "smear" is a smear perpetrated by DSLR fanboys - or at least, obsessive pixel peepers.

I have read two different stories about RAW from the HS20. Some comment that they like the jpg image better after trying RAW. Another said they use RAW to eliminate the "smearing" - which would mean that artifact (if it is noticed at all) may not be related to the "small sensor" excuse:
I am shooting RAW at ISO100... to avoid the noise and smearing...
Rick
Any thoughts on RAW? I'm accustomed to shooting and PP RAW with my Pentax, although there would be one more step collecting the converted Silkypix images into my Elements 9, which I believe can be set up to auto import.

Last edited by gfmucci; Apr 26, 2011 at 9:41 PM.
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Old Apr 26, 2011, 4:32 PM   #18
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Hi.

In my opinion, the smearing, or watercolour issue is largely from processing within the camera, particularly cameras that use internal digital processing to correct massive zoom lens distortion (i.e chromatic, vignetting, barrel). Also, noise reduction can delete any fine details it seems, as well as Image stabilization systems. The HS20 seems the best of the lot so far, I have only seen minimal amounts of the 'watercolour/smearing' effect, given their price, size and flexibility.

I think that current cameras might use these digital processing techniques a little too much. However, in my opinion smaller sensors can be just as sharp as entry to mid level DSLRS, particurlalrly CCD compact sensors. Look at the previous fuji camera such as the 6500 and 9600 respectivley. The HS10 and 20 are a different type, not sure what they are called though.

The HS20 seems to do a very good job, I have been very impressed with its result from Sprint and Guus on here. Guus' dog looks amazing.

The heat problem has been solved. On Dpreview they went manic about the problem,accusing Fuji of this and that with no factual evidence, and pure conjecture.

As for the lens, My fathers HS10 was a bit lumpy, but the HS20 is much smoother. Im guessing its just the gearing, as there are 6 pieces of glass in the HS10 and 5 in the HS20 I read somewhere. It doesnt distract from the creative process (HS10).

Last edited by Lifeforms; Apr 26, 2011 at 4:42 PM.
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Old Apr 26, 2011, 9:39 PM   #19
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I read from a couple of sources that setting the sharpening to the highest level reduces or eliminates smearing in most situations. Apparently the sharpening also reduces the amount of noise correction. So even if your noise correction is set to low (it cannot be actually turned off) the noise reduction is further reduced by sharpening set at "high". The reports go on to say that artifacts from this high level of sharpening are not evident, unless you go well beyond 8 by 10s.

This is good news for me.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 3:12 AM   #20
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Good information. When I get a HS20 (im going to wait a little for the price to drop) I will try this out.
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