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Old Aug 3, 2011, 10:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimbobo View Post
.. my enthusiasm for the cam is fading away with the increase amount of pics I am taking.
Maybe 1000 pics, so far, 95% are not keepers.
I would say a 5% hit rate is better than average. Maybe that just shows
my lack of ability.

Quote:
As I said, I doubt it's the cam, unless a buggy one", but I get frustrated by seeing the output.
As some of your images look quite good, I think it is safe to say
that the camera is ok.

Do you have unrealistic expectations? Cameras with a very small
sensor have limited low light performance. If you have a good understanding
of the camera's limitations, it is sometimes possible to work around them.
If you use a tripod, you can shoot at low ISO, even in very low light.
You can see from some of the postings in this forum that this approach
works very well. Gary's excellent close-up shots are a good example.

You can also get good results outdoors in good daylight. If you
want to capture fast action in low light, then a bridge cam is the
wrong tool for the job.

Quote:
The noise also in "print size" is not OK, I miss the sharpness I see from other pics on the net made by the same cam.
It always seems that way when you look at other photographers work.
We tend to cast a more critical eye on our own images.

You should also bear in mind that images on the web may have
been heavily processed. Independent review sites like Steve's are very
useful because they try to be consistent when reviewing a camera.
This gives a good basis for comparison with other cameras. Even
under these controlled conditions, there is a lot of variation due to
different conditions on the day of the review. Shooting conditions
can vary dramatically depending on the weather, time of day and
season.


Quote:
Especially indoor the results are poor, the cam push ISO always at the top.. If I choose Auto 400 then it's 400, if I choose Auto 800 the same, even when there is light enough to shoot 200 or 100.
Looking at the M&M man indoor shots in the Steve's review shows
very little visible noise at ISO100. If you are a compulsive pixel peeper,
you should try to keep your ISO setting as low as possible. Noise
is reasonably well controlled at ISO200 and 400. At higher ISO settings,
noise becomes quite noticeable. Having ISO3200, 6400 and 12800 on
a bridge cam is pure specmanship on the part of Fujifilm.

Quote:
Outdoors, with few exceptions, I have no sharpness and crispiness.
I have always found pictures from digital cameras benefit from a bit
of sharpening, This applies to compact, bridge and DSLR cameras.
I'm sure you can increase the sharpness settings in the camera. It
is probably safer to do it on the computer. That way you will have
control of the degree of sharpening and a way of undoing the
damage if you sharpen it too much.


Quote:
All the pics look well in the cam's LCD when pushing the shutter button half way to focus, but on 15", 22", 32" and 42" monitors/TVs we have home.. only few are acceptable in term of sharpness, depth, colours and noise
That is the nature of noise. The small specks of noise tend to disappear
when the image is scaled to a smaller size.


Quote:
What to do?
1) returning the cam? I like the cam itself.. I cannot see another cam of same "bridge type" to the price and features
2) Keeping it and hope that with time I find the magic combination/settings?
That is a choice that only you can make. Similar cameras will be subject
to the same limitations. The Panasonic FZ100 which is also based on a
CMOS sensor suffers from similar levels of noise. CCD based cameras like
the Panasonic FZ35/38/40/45 seem to offer slightly better performance. It is
interesting to note that the recently announced FZ47 has a reduced resolution
of 12MP compared to the 14MP of the previous model. If you did trade down
to a cheaper CCD based model, you might lose out on some of the features
of the HS20 like the flash hot-shoe and high speed HD video.

My own opinion, for what it is worth is that you should either stick
with the HS20 or exchange it for a camera with a larger sensor.
This will lead you to a trade-off between zoom range, image quality
and cost. A DSLR will give better image quality, but you will need
some rather expensive lenses to match the zoom range of the HS10.

Quote:
Sorry for "throwing" all my frustration in the forum, I made progress with the HS20 but I am now in "nowhere land".. Because the progress made moving from Auto to P are stopped and now I am not going forward anymore.

Thanks for "listening"
Regards
I have a a lot of sympathy with your situation. I bought a nice new
lens (Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8) about three weeks ago. As the DHL man
was still standing at the front door, the dark clouds rolled in and it
has been very dark and cloudy almost every day since then. I see
that you have had similar conditions in Denmark recently:
http://www.met.ie/sat/euro-v.asp Maybe things will look better
when the sun breaks through.

This was taken last Friday. It is even worse today
Attached Images
 

Last edited by corkpix; Aug 3, 2011 at 10:46 AM.
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 1:13 PM   #32
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Thanks for the long post..
Expetation are sharp photos, not artistic, state of the art quality, but decent normal photos.
I have not consistant results, and pointing at the same object or taking pictures in the same room, it seems you never know what you get when taking photo one after the other ( and I mean seconds after the first one).

After reading you post and looking back at all the pics I saved... I like what I see, but as said, it's a few percentage.

I had guests yesterday, we were out im garden with good light, and I did not take a real good picture. If it would have been a" special event" I would have ended with a depressing result.

I can see that the cam has a huge potential and the last settings are really better, also at 16mp, but I would like a bit more reliability, like when you drive a car, it can break down, but you drive and control it the same way when all works.

With this cam is like a lottery right now, you can be very lucky and/or very poor.
I know it's a bridge, small sensor cam, but I see some clear and sharp pics from other, and even my best ones are not close to that quality. Are they all retouched in Photoshop?

I read the review of this cam, exactly from the place that should be able to be specialized and giving you the right idea about the product... none of the review is good, all point at the bad noise also at 200-400 ISO, poor image quality in that case.

Steve says:
"Mid to High ISO image quality is poor
Very noisy "Advanced" shooting modes"

The same from all other places like Steve Digicam.


My pics, except those outside are mid to high ISO.... so what can I expect than an expert could not get?


So, I just see what many other see.. and I am a novice, who has even more difficulty to bring the good out of the lens.

About EXR I had a poor experience at start, same as Auto..

The cam is packed, ready to be sent...I have still doubts about what to do, but the last 5-6 days with the cam has given me lots of bad times and few good times.

The night will bring some light, and maybe I'll change my mind and give it one more try... otherwise it's bound to Germany.

Regards
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 3:45 PM   #33
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@ Corkpix , that was a really good post you put up there, and it should be in a frame for the next one...
Any clearer than that is hard to do.
I see That you also keep a DSLR at hand for the tricky situations

greetz

Btw
we have the same wheather here in Belgium.
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Old Aug 4, 2011, 6:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimbobo View Post
Thanks for the long post..
Expetation are sharp photos, not artistic, state of the art quality, but decent normal photos.
I would say that is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

Quote:
I have not consistant results, and pointing at the same object or taking pictures in the same room, it seems you never know what you get when taking photo one after the other ( and I mean seconds after the first one).
It is almost impossible to get absolute shot-to-shot consistency unless
you use a tripod, artificial light and manual settings. Every time you
half-press the shutter button in auto and semi-auto modes, the camera
will do it's auto focus and auto exposure calculations.

Quote:
After reading you post and looking back at all the pics I saved... I like what I see, but as said, it's a few percentage.
Even if you have only one good shot, this will show the potential of
the camera. Your hit rate will improve with experience. It will never come
close to 100%. The great landscape photographer Ansel Adams is
reported to have said: “Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop.”

Quote:
....I would like a bit more reliability, like when you drive a car, it can break down, but you drive and control it the same way when all works.
It takes a while to learn how to drive a car. A few weeks just for the
fundamentals, several years to learn how to do it well.

Quote:
With this cam is like a lottery right now, you can be very lucky and/or very poor.
I know it's a bridge, small sensor cam, but I see some clear and sharp pics from other, and even my best ones are not close to that quality. Are they all retouched in Photoshop?
Most images on web forums have had some processing. For a start,
images out of the camera are far too big to display on a web browser.
AFAIK, Steve's has a maximum limit of 1024 pixels on the longest
side and a maximum file size of around 256kB. Larger images are
automatically resized and compressed. This would shrink your
16MP images down to 1024x768 or a bit less than 1MP. This process
will lead to a dramatic reduction in noise. Most images will also have
some adjustments to sharpness and colour (contrast, saturation etc...)
A few forum members also use noise reduction software. The pictures
you see here and on photo sharing sites like flickr may be quite different
to the ones that came out of the camera.

Quote:
Steve says:
"Mid to High ISO image quality is poor..."
You could also read that as "Low to Mid ISO image quality is good.


Quote:
My pics, except those outside are mid to high ISO.... so what can I expect than an expert could not get?
The key is a good understanding of the relationship between aperture,
shutter speed and ISO setting. With a camera like the HS20, you have to
be particularly aware of the limitations of the small sensor.

In a carefully controlled situation, you can get great results:
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fu...87761-why.html

The EXIF info is intact so that you can see the camera settings that
Gary used.


In a more typical indoor situation, you will see some noise. It
shouldn't detract too much from the image if it is handled
carefully.
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/1218865-post1.html

Outdoors in full daylight, you can get very good results as
seen in the Steve's review.
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Old Aug 4, 2011, 7:12 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprint View Post
@ Corkpix , that was a really good post you put up there, and it should be in a frame for the next one...
Any clearer than that is hard to do.
Thank you sir!

Quote:
I see That you also keep a DSLR at hand for the tricky situations
I use the Canon 500D for most shots. I also have a Panasonic FZ28
bridge camera. Like the HS20, it has it's limitations in low light.
You can get good results from it, even in the dark. It got me a
POTD in June: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/1237165-post1.html


Quote:
Btw
we have the same wheather here in Belgium.
Here is today's depressing image from the Irish Met Office:
http://www.met.ie/sat/euro-v.asp Looks like we may get some
light this evening before the next lot of clouds come in from
the Atlantic.
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Old Aug 4, 2011, 8:08 AM   #36
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..thanks again, I am in doubt of my ability to use the cam, so I will send it back and get the refund.

I will await a couple of months before buying a camera again.
Who knows maybe another HS20, if I decide not to give up, maybe an HS30, if it will be released, maybe something else, or nothing else.

Right now I cannot ignore Amazon's deadline.
Thanks to all.. for the support,critics and advices...
Maybe I'll be here again after this sommer, asking for more help.:-)
Regards
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