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Old Oct 16, 2004, 3:01 AM   #1
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what better camera and what you would buy from those cameras.

Thank You!



In my country this is the proces (in USD)

-FZ20 cost 710$but you don't get anywarrenty (because ineed toordet this camera ftom USA... in my country it's cost 890$ with 2 year warrenty)

-Fuji S7000 cost same 710$ but you get 2 year of orginal warrenty
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Old Oct 17, 2004, 3:12 AM   #2
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I've seen too many poor quality test images from these two cameras - the level of noise in both these camerasseems to be quite high.

Take a look at Olympus (C-765, C-770) - significantly better image quality, in my view.
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Old Oct 17, 2004, 8:51 AM   #3
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The quality of the photos seems to be the same... but...

With a Fuji you can use any R6 Ni-MH cell you find at the barber's shop in Swaziland for a few bucks (Try to find THE proprietary battery for your Panasonic at the same place... for the same price... supposing you are in need). Good luck.

With a Fuji (S7000) you can store your photos on a Compact Flash card which is (at the time of writing) the cheapest one and the one giving you the highest capacity and speed for your money.

Regards.
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Old Oct 20, 2004, 6:01 AM   #4
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First I have to ask what's your country?

Second you can buy any of these online from Europe (if you live in Europe) for much less.
Take a look here
http://www.pixmania.com/pt/pt/59480/...pix-s7000.html
And here
http://www.pixmania.com/pt/pt/56604/...-fz20eg-k.html

And you have a warranty on both (hopefully)

Anyway both are great camera with pros and cons, but for me personally I'd choose the S7K (guess what, I have one) the only thing on the FZ20 making me go for it would be the zoom (in fact I'm considering getting one as a complement because of that, but I'll keep the S7K off course), other than that I'd go for the S7K. They're very similar cameras in features but there are things on the S7K that can't be overlooked like the high ISO capabilities (this is very useful), RAW format (using third party software) and AA bateries. This is JMHO the things I value on the S7K may have no value for you, so you're the one that has to decide based on what tipe of use that your camera will get. Try to search for Lin Evans posts or contact him, he has both cameras and better than anyone he should be able to tell with is best.

Regards,
Fernando

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Old Dec 23, 2004, 1:14 AM   #5
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EOS RT wrote:
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I've seen too many poor quality test images from these two cameras - the level of noise in both these camerasseems to be quite high.

Take a look at Olympus (C-765, C-770) - significantly better image quality, in my view.

Actually, I've looked at factual statistics and it has less noise when used correctly than almost any other camera below $1000. But most people don't know how to get the best out of a camera, and if you want this camera, you have to know what you're doing. I'm buying it, and I hardly know crap about truly manual cameras, but if you have patience with learning the correct way to take a photo, then this will be the best camera under $1000 for you.
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Old Dec 23, 2004, 2:44 AM   #6
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I have heard a lot about noise problems with the S7000. Steve's review sample pics show ampleevidence of it. However, in my pictures (over 7000 to date) at ISO 200, I don't think it's bad at all. even at 400, I have taken lots of great pics at NBA basketball games. I also like the fact that it uses AA batteries, available anywhere.

However, the 12Xoptical zoom and stabilizer makes the Panasonic FZ20camera tempting, too, especially if you sit in distant bleacher seats like me.

They're both good cameras. Get your hands on them, if you can, before buying and see how they feel.

Good luck!


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Old Dec 23, 2004, 9:44 AM   #7
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The true test in my opinion is not how much noise you see at 100 or 200% on a computer monitor, but how the pics look when printed. ALL digital cameras will have some noise and artifacts. The S7000 was recently given kudos in a photography magazine for low noise. I have not had any noise problems with my S7k. That said, you will have to decide what camera best meets your needs, you are the only one that can really determine that. While we can give you our experience and opinions, we don't know what will work best for YOU.

Clyde
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Old Dec 23, 2004, 9:50 AM   #8
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EOS RT wrote:
Quote:
I've seen too many poor quality test images from these two cameras - the level of noise in both these camerasseems to be quite high.

Take a look at Olympus (C-765, C-770) - significantly better image quality, in my view.

While we all have our opinions, I think inquiries from someone looking to purchase/upgrade deserve input that is as unbiased as possible. Whose test images are you using and what is your criteria for your judgement, 100% view on a computer monitor? Just curious.Some of the reviewers just did not take the time to learn how to use the camera (S7k)properly, one even posted pics/results from a camera with a known defect. Go look at real user's photos for a better evaluation of ANY camera in my opinion.

Clyde
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 11:45 PM   #9
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The truth to the matter is that S7000 images *CAN* look very good, with the right post-processing, and in the right amount, etc.

While my site is not officially a "review" site, I'm much more blunt than some. The Fuji guys (and a gal or two I'm sure) have really put far too much hype into the super CCD thing than they should... it simply doesn't work. It doesn't matter whether the CCD diodes/sensors are shaped like rectangles, octagons, or santa clause - you are not getting 12 true megapixel images from 6 million of them. The results are not close to traditional CCD cameras. The fact that in many of their models you cannot change the compression settings on some of the resolution sizes causes further image quality issues.

You know they're aware of it. No amount of saki however, is going to get them to admit the super CCD is going to fade away. However, in newer models (a couple in the 500 series and the new 5100/5500) you see Fuji dropping the super CCD in favor of traditional CCDs. Silently, but they're doing it, and I think the trend will continue until they've phased out the super CCD (HR) entirely - maybe the (SR) later.

To get back to the images though - "out of camera" the images on a monitor and standard size prints look fine, but they are noisy, and contain too many compression artifacts. To test this out, I set the camera one day up at 12MP "fine", with soft sharpening in camera. Submitted the photos to two popular stock photo agencies. All were declined. I then took those images, and applied Paint Shop Pro 9's noise filter to them, and then reduced them to a 6MP image size and resubmitted them. Most were accepted by the agencies. As far as reviews go - the reviewers of these sites review photos out of camera from various models - they do not have the time to "fix" images to be able to tell people images "can be good if you work at them". If the images are cruddy out of camera, they say so, and rightfully so.

The point of this is that S7000 images CAN be made to a higher standard, but out of camera upon inspection they do indeed have problems. For the low price being charged for it today, the S7000 is a good deal considering the features you get. Just learn to use whatever image editor you have, or buy a good one, to tweak the images from this camera to get the best results. I really do like Paint Shop Pros noise reduction filter, but you can do this in Photoshop, Elements, etc. If you're willing to work on the images, it's worth the money. If you want the very best out of camera image quality, get a DSLR.



GREG
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 1:25 AM   #10
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I used Steve's sample photos from the Fuji S7000, Panasonic FZ20 and Oly C765 and cropped out the same scene. They were all resampled with bicubic to the same size. They are obviously large blowups from the brick building photos.

Either the in-camera noise filtering or just a poor lens leaves the Oly 765 image really wanting in the resolution. It does have low noise, but you really pay for it in resolution. The difference in 1Mp between the FZ20 and Oly can't account for that much resolution loss. You can take out the noise with Neat Image and still keep the resolution, but there isn't much you can do if the detail isn't there. I thought the edges might just be soft on the Oly, but other parts of the picture showed the same lack of detail at large blowups.

The Fuji suffers from the extreme compression Fuji uses for 6Mp shots. You pretty much have to shoot at 12Mp to come close to the native resolution of the FZ20. The FZ20 obviously has a very good lens. Steve probably shot with the stabilization on, but it is bright and it is a fairly wide angle shot, so that probably didn't affect this particular photo.

After using stabilization I won't be without it. I'm hoping someone will make a decent pocket camera with stabilization. Panasonic makes a P&S stabilized FX7 with no optical finder, but it isn't what I want. Stabilization lets you shoot in a lot more situations without flash or tripod. Combined with the f2.8 at 12X the stabilization gives probably 4 f-stops over the others at full zoom, and that comes out to being able to shoot in about 1/16 the light without a tripod.



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