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Old Nov 20, 2004, 11:46 AM   #11
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Would Fuji have quoted / linked to reviews that didn't show their products in a favourable light?... I think not.

Making blanket statments like "Fuji cameras can testify to their superiority in most respects" can be tricky statements to justify - and there's certainly no proof that Fuji are any better/worse than any other manufacturer, and "The bias towards Canon has to be seen to be believed" is partly justified - Canon camers are probably the most consistant in build/image quality of all the current manufactuers - not one of their models has really been a flop or has anything like the level of critisim aimed at it as certain Fuji's [and other makes] have.

Don't get me wrong here - I happen to own a s7000 which I've had for a couple of weeks - I spent ages reading through reviews of this and that camera before deciding to get it - the only thing that was putting me off was the relative slating the sensors were getting in reviews regearding image quality.. and especially the noise and excessive compression/sharpening and odd colour balance(s).

..but buying a camera isn't just about one feature. The Fuji's are excellent value for money compared to some the others - they, on average, have abetter build quality, more features, nicer operating controls, menu's etc. etc. and when you weigh it all up together they are very very nice, but I wouldn't go so far as the "best value, best specified best performing cameras on the planet!!"... there's always something better around the corner.


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Old Nov 20, 2004, 2:15 PM   #12
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Well, this seems like a bit of a silly pissing match,

what with the evil green eye looking at me ominously and all.

I'm not really on either side, but, like Harvey, I recently

selected a Fuji for myself (though mines all wrapped up in

Christmas paper and I don't get to have it for another five weeks). :sad:

(Don't tell, I'm not supposed to know.) Anyway, I selected the S5100.

Here, in part, is how I selected it...

Price point pretty much dictated that the megapixels would be 4 or thereabouts.

Numerous features, somemore tangible than others, can be compared,

but I decided to take, what I considered to be, four important, quantifiable

measures, and literally calculate, at least some objective measure of value.

Since we are talking value here, obviously one of my factors is P (Price).

I used the lowest US$ figure PriceGrabber could find for me on Oct 25th.

My other three factors were...

R (Max Uninterpolated Resolution)

This seemed a better measure than MegaPixels in as much as I wanted

to avoid squares and squareroots. Resolution compares to zoom factor.

MegaPixels compare to the square of zoom factor.

Z (Zoom)

I like glass. Just because I'm going digital, doesn't mean I don't care

about glass, and dollars will buy twice the optical zoom, long before

they will buy twice the CCD resolution (four times the megapixels).

f (Max Aperture at Full Zoom)

Again, glass. I don't want a pinhole camera that only works

with a motionless subject in full sun on a tripod. Z/f is the most

basic measure of glass.

So, there we have it, a very basic measure of value...

RZ/fP

Sure, there are many other things to consider, but you have to start somewhere.

Here are my results...

16.65 Minolta DiMage Z3

18.70 Kodak EasyShare DX6490

19.23 HP PhotoSmart 945

21.66 Canon PowerShot S1 IS

21.77 Olympus UltraZoom C-765

24.26 Panasonic Lumix FZ15

24.84 FujiFilm FinePix S5100

To demonstrate the calculation, in that last case, the Fuji,

R = 2272, Z = 10, f = 3.1, P = 295

It doesn't matterif actually getting an S5100 for US$295

is a dubious proposition, I used the same measure for all of them,

the lowest new price (not refurb) PriceGrabber could find that day.

The prices will vary from week to week, but you have to work with something.

Pull up your Windows calculator and you can verify that

the S5100 does indeed score 24.84 by these criteria.

Is my formula biased? Damned right it is.

Iactually chose the S5100 for it's beauty.

Like a woman picking out jewelry, I decided that the S5100

was what I wanted to have hanging around my neck

(given the price constraints of course).

I then set about justifying what was really just a

"gee dat's purdy" decision. There's no doubt but that the FZ15

is the superior camera, but, I can't afford it (or rather,

Mrs. Santa can't afford it) and, in truth, most importantly,

it's just not as PURDY!

---Swampy.
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Old Nov 20, 2004, 5:13 PM   #13
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Hello irony detector and sense of humour failure alert!!!!!!!why do you Americans allways take things so seriously? my post was intended as something of a wry poke at some of the canofanatics(PeterP) who leapt out of the wood work to defend the beloved brand. you should all realise that there is life outside the US there is a whole world of photographic experiance in Europe and Asia that you are completely ignorant of. so you all better gen up on some of that non US sourced info because i am looking forward to sharing much more of it with you( bet you cant wait).
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Old Nov 20, 2004, 5:21 PM   #14
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PeterP wrote:
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Nice that link does not exist and drops you back to the main Fuji page. Fuji site is a good place to go for unbiased reviews of Fuji cameras.

If you fix the link so it actually work you get to a "pseudo review page", those are 1 paragraph sales blurbsfrom stores and vendors selected by Fuji for inclusion on their site, not in-depth reviews

For me this issue helped made my decision: our FujiFilm rep, the account guy whosold all our film and supplies beforethe company's big switch to digitallast year, wouldtalk about nothing elseexcept how great thenew Fuji sensor and digital cameras were. I recently met him again and guess what he is using to shoot personally, yup you guessed it a Nikon.

As said before, their high end S1/2/3 look to be excellent cameras, their P&S don't seem to make the cut, and yes I did have an oldFuji P&S, replaced it last year with a Nikon P&S. To me my oldFuji's images always looked soft.


EOF[/b]
If for one minute you actually took the time to follow through to the actual reviews themselves you would find that they all come from highly respected sources over which Fuji has no control, if you believe otherwise i feel sorry for your state of bias and ignorance!!
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Old Nov 20, 2004, 6:19 PM   #15
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canofanatics(PeterP)??? If you read my posts you would know I own Nikon, Fuji, and Yashika P&S, and Canon DSLR and slr. I don't care who makes the camera so long as it works well, exception being the SLR's as I don't want to spend the cash on multiple sets of lenses. If I was to start again and re-buy everything I think I would go Minolta

Iam alsoNOT an American (at least the last time I looked Ontario,Canada was not in the US of A). It does looks like you have trouble reading or are just ignorant of other countries. I also may leap out of closets on occasion, I never leap out of wood work!

Your last 2 posts confirm you were performing the task of trolling.


BTW: EOF, stands for End of File, I consider this thread is closed and will not respond any further to any of your inane anti Canon pro Fuji fanaticism, so unless someone wants to continue in a flame war this thread is over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mweb
humour failure alert!!!!!!!why do you Americans allways take things so seriously? my post was intended as something of a wry poke at some of the canofanatics(PeterP) who leapt out of the wood work
[/quote]


To Coventry with you.

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Old Nov 20, 2004, 7:33 PM   #16
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Kalypso wrote:
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The Planet? I'm sorry but every place on the planet isn't constantly covered with fog (or it's raining). Maybe that's the reason Fuji is the number one seller in the UK (& Seattle )
I'm an American...does my post sound like I took you seriously?
:blah:
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Old Nov 21, 2004, 5:08 AM   #17
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PeterP wrote:
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canofanatics(PeterP)??? If you read my posts you would know I own Nikon, Fuji, and Yashika P&S, and Canon DSLR and slr. I don't care who makes the camera so long as it works well, exception being the SLR's as I don't want to spend the cash on multiple sets of lenses. If I was to start again and re-buy everything I think I would go Minolta

Iam alsoNOT an American (at least the last time I looked Ontario,Canada was not in the US of A). It does looks like you have trouble reading or are just ignorant of other countries. I also may leap out of closets on occasion, I never leap out of wood work!

Your last 2 posts confirm you were performing the task of trolling.


BTW: EOF, stands for End of File, and this thread is closed, unless someone wants to continue in a flame war.

mweb wrote:


Quote:
Hello irony detector and sense of humour failure alert!!!!!!!why do you Americans allways take things so seriously? my post was intended as something of a wry poke at some of the canofanatics(PeterP) who leapt out of the wood work

To Coventry with you.
PeterP Two things annoy me about the above, Firstly in all other forums on all other web sites threads are closed by MODERATORS you seem to think yourself lord god almighty by taking it upon yourself to do that job for them!! secondly to accuse me of trolling is ridiculous i have been a member of this forum longer than 90% of people who post in it!! you just cant deal with someone who has ideas and opinions that are differant to your own because it bruises your over sensitive and enlarged ego!!
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Old Nov 21, 2004, 5:10 AM   #18
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Kalypso wrote:
Quote:
Kalypso wrote:
Quote:
The Planet? I'm sorry but every place on the planet isn't constantly covered with fog (or it's raining). Maybe that's the reason Fuji is the number one seller in the UK (& Seattle )
I'm an American...does my post sound like I took you seriously?
:blah:
Fair enough Kalypso you are the exception that proves the rule.:-)
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Old Nov 21, 2004, 10:53 PM   #19
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For what it's worth, I own a Fuji S5000 and my sister has a Canon S500, and frankly, I think they both take very good pictures.I prefer my Fuji, but the Canon is very nice, too, and she gets some great shots with it. Who cares what name's on the camera as long as it functions well? There are lots of features that determine what camera a person buys, and nearly everyone is a little different than the next person, which is why we have so many brands and models to choose from.
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Old Nov 26, 2004, 11:54 PM   #20
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mweb, sorry, but I must disagree. You have a case of "brand bias". I'm not politically correct, so I'll throw in my two cents worth: I do a small web site on digital cameras ( http://www.digitalcamerabasics.com), and while I have not had contact with nearly as many cameras as people like Steve have, I have had the opportunity to try out, borrow, use, or own, a variety of models over what the average consumer might have used.

At this time, the trend toward Canon is founded. Right now, they ARE producing superior cameras when compared to the other makers. In the past, Olympus and Nikon have both shared this fame as well. Sony is pretty high up there, and in some places like the U.K, Fuji is a strong runner in terms of SALES. Sales however, do not necessarily mean the cameras are the best... just that they've been marketed much better in a given area.

I do not agree that Fuji's super CCD is superior to anything. It's a gimmick to some degree, and while it's "interesting" in the way it cranks out a LITTLE bit of extra resolution in a chip, it does not compete with traditional CCDs and higher end CMOS sensors in terms of overall image quality. That, and the fact that Fuji does not offer firmware upgrades to their cameras, and makes models that do not give uses compression/quality setting choices in the menu for most resolution settings, puts them currently in a lower overall category with reviewers. You will note that Fuji is quietly and slowly reverting back to traditional CCDs in their models one by one (in the 500 series, 5100/5500, etc ), and I think while they will never fess up to it, they finally have seen the super CCD is not working as planned, and you'll see if phased out competely over the next two years.

This is not "Fuji bashing". It's entirely possible that a year or so from now, Fuji will make some incredible models and Canon will really screw up, or Sony will come out with the miracle camera, and all others will fall short, etc. In this market, each maker makes good cameras and duds, and each maker goes through periods of making a series of good cameras in a row that put them in the leading position. Right now, Canon is in that position. In the future, it may well be Fuji.

But it doesn't matter WHAT model or brand you own, or what any reviewers say. If a camera does for you everything you need it to do, that is all that matters.

Greg




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