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Old Nov 27, 2004, 2:21 AM   #21
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That, and the fact that Fuji does not offer firmware upgrades to their cameras, and makes models that do not give uses compression/quality setting choices in the menu for most resolution settings, puts them currently in a lower overall category with reviewers
As an owner/user of the S7000, I completely agree with you.
The guys at FUJI don't care of their customers. As a result, my next camera (very soon) won't be a FUJI and I'll never recommend this brand to anyone. My next camera will certainly be a CANON that was my first intention before changing for FUJI. A very bad idea indeed. Shame on me.

That's all, Mr FUJI, you've got what you deserve.
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Old Nov 27, 2004, 9:13 AM   #22
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atlantagreg wrote:
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mweb, sorry, but I must disagree. You have a case of "brand bias". I'm not politically correct, so I'll throw in my two cents worth: I do a small web site on digital cameras ( http://www.digitalcamerabasics.com ), and while I have not had contact with nearly as many cameras as people like Steve have, I have had the opportunity to try out, borrow, use, or own, a variety of models over what the average consumer might have used.

At this time, the trend toward Canon is founded. Right now, they ARE producing superior cameras when compared to the other makers. In the past, Olympus and Nikon have both shared this fame as well. Sony is pretty high up there, and in some places like the U.K, Fuji is a strong runner in terms of SALES. Sales however, do not necessarily mean the cameras are the best... just that they've been marketed much better in a given area.

I do not agree that Fuji's super CCD is superior to anything. It's a gimmick to some degree, and while it's "interesting" in the way it cranks out a LITTLE bit of extra resolution in a chip, it does not compete with traditional CCDs and higher end CMOS sensors in terms of overall image quality. That, and the fact that Fuji does not offer firmware upgrades to their cameras, and makes models that do not give uses compression/quality setting choices in the menu for most resolution settings, puts them currently in a lower overall category with reviewers. You will note that Fuji is quietly and slowly reverting back to traditional CCDs in their models one by one (in the 500 series, 5100/5500, etc ), and I think while they will never fess up to it, they finally have seen the super CCD is not working as planned, and you'll see if phased out competely over the next two years.

This is not "Fuji bashing". It's entirely possible that a year or so from now, Fuji will make some incredible models and Canon will really screw up, or Sony will come out with the miracle camera, and all others will fall short, etc. In this market, each maker makes good cameras and duds, and each maker goes through periods of making a series of good cameras in a row that put them in the leading position. Right now, Canon is in that position. In the future, it may well be Fuji.

But it doesn't matter WHAT model or brand you own, or what any reviewers say. If a camera does for you everything you need it to do, that is all that matters.

Greg



I accept some of what you say AtlantaGreg and i am aware of your Website (to which i have actually contributed £2) In the Uk the picture is completely different (as i have explained elsewhere) I have stated also that Canon make some excellent cameras, but here in the UK they are overpriced and underspecified,That is why Fuji outsell them 2 to 1. If fuji were charging extortionate money for superccd machines you would be correct in calling it a gimmick, but i refer you to the S7000 test by POP PHOTO USAs most respected journal which gave it a measured resolution of 9MP. some gimmick?
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Old Nov 27, 2004, 12:30 PM   #23
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mweb wrote:
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here in the UK they are overpriced and underspecified,That is why Fuji outsell them 2 to 1.
Do you have figures that back up that claim?

I can find sites like http://www.photographic.com/news/021804camerasales/

who state:

In the US, Sony Corporation was the #1 brand, with 22% of market share, followed closely by Kodak with 20%. Canon was the third most popular US brand, with 16% of the market. Olympus, which was #2 in 2002, fell to fourth place with 10% of the American market in 2003. The best-selling model last year was Canon's $299 Powershot A70, with a 3.2-megapixel image sensor.

- no mention of Fuji there at all.

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but i refer you to the S7000 test by POP PHOTO USAs most respected journal which gave it a measured resolution of 9MP. some gimmick?
Perhaps they should try measuring the diagonal resolution sometime..
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Old Dec 6, 2004, 8:08 AM   #24
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Harvey wrote:
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mweb wrote:
Quote:
here in the UK they are overpriced and underspecified,That is why Fuji outsell them 2 to 1.
Do you have figures that back up that claim?

I can find sites like http://www.photographic.com/news/021804camerasales/

who state:

In the US, Sony Corporation was the #1 brand, with 22% of market share, followed closely by Kodak with 20%. Canon was the third most popular US brand, with 16% of the market. Olympus, which was #2 in 2002, fell to fourth place with 10% of the American market in 2003. The best-selling model last year was Canon's $299 Powershot A70, with a 3.2-megapixel image sensor.

- no mention of Fuji there at all.

Quote:
but i refer you to the S7000 test by POP PHOTO USAs most respected journal which gave it a measured resolution of 9MP. some gimmick?
Perhaps they should try measuring the diagonal resolution sometime..
Thats because its a US website quoting US figures if you open your eyes i said in the UK. there is life outside the US you know!! and if you want to ignore like for like resolution figures then more fool you
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Old Dec 6, 2004, 6:23 PM   #25
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In the U.S. for point and shoot digital cameras it's:

1. Sony 21.5% (falling)
2. Kodak 18.3% (rising)
3. Canon 14.7% (rising)
4. Olympus 11.8%
5. Fuji 8.7%
6. HP 7.0%
7. Nikon 5.7%

Since D-SLR sales are relatively small, these numbers also probably
are accurate across the board. Clearly Canon has a huge lead in market
share in D-SLRs, but the total numbers are small.

For all of 2003, in Europe, the top 5 comprised about 61% of the
market, and were:

1. Canon 15.8% (rising)
2. Sony 13.3% (falling)
3. Olympus 11.3% (falling)
4. Fuji 10.8% (falling)
5. Nikon 9.7% (rising)

This includes D-SLRs.

Pretty interesting that Kodak is number two in the U.S., and may have
already actually passed Sony for the number one spot, but isn't even
in the top five in Europe.

Worldwide, the numbers for 2002 and 2003 are:

2003

1. Sony 18.4% (falling)
2. Canon 16.2% (rising)
3. Olympus 13.0% (falling)
4. Kodak 12.0% (rising)
5. Fuji 11.6% (falling)
6. Nikon 8.6% (rising)
7. HP 5.1% (falling)

2002
1. Sony 19.8%
2. Canon 14.7%
3. Olympus 15.9%
4. Kodak 9.9%
5. Fuji Photo 14.2%
6. Nikon 8.3%
7. HP 5.9%





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Old Dec 25, 2004, 1:57 PM   #26
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Please read my post "F700-Too good to be true". And if you look in google you'll find some other folks with the same problem using the same Fuji F700. Too bad I did not find out before. For me...it is beyond my comprehension that a camera 6 weeks old has those severe malfunctions. No service here in my country. No chances of taking a plane and go to the dealers location and claim my money back or whatever. So you see...I don't "feel" like Fuji bears that GOOD a reputation . For me buying that camera has beenn...a HUGE mistake!!!.

not trying to hurt any feelings, nor biased toward any particular brand...just frustrated...that's all!

Thanks
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 2:05 PM   #27
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I don't usually like to respond to this kind of posts but I'm doing it anyway. I've had a Fuji S5000, now I have a Fuji S7000 and also a Nikon D70, and in my opinion the SuperCCD is one of the best sensors of the market if not the best (remember it's MY opinion, you may disagree).
The only two problems with Fuji is their Jpeg processing sucks (at least I don't like it, too much contrast at the expense of DR), easy solution really, just shot RAW (BTW I also don't like the Jpegs on my D70 so I also shot RAW with it) and convert either with a 3rd party software or PSCS or elements 3, and the other problem is that their too optimistic, minimum ISO 200 on such a small CCD, come on wake up Fuji, (oops they already did, the new ones comes with ISO 80), they also did the same (worst) with the S1 and woke up in time for the S2 giving it ISO100 but the truth is that no other sensor on the market can keep up with the SCCD at higher ISOs, and that alone makes the Fuji's worth buying for me and I'm sure for many more people too, it just depends on the type of photography you do.

Harvey gave some links to Dpreview comparisons, witch are a bit nonsense IMHO you cannot compare a Sony 828 to a Fuji S7000, the Sony costs twice the price (at least in Portugal) and also comparing a 12Mp interpolated file against a true 8Mp file is not very fair too, at least resize one of them to the same size.

Now take a look at this link (Warning 474Kb file)
http://fernando.fotopic.net/p10207234.html press the full size button, a few 100% crops from Dpreview tests against a realistic Fuji rival S60 and a not so realistic one C8080.
The top samples were downsized to match the S60 size in PS, as you can see they're all very similar at that size at low ISO, but at ISO 400 I'd take the Fuji any day.
The bottom samples were resized to match the C8080 file size, I'd say the Fuji still holds itself very well specially at higher ISO against a camera almost three times it's price and with much better glass. Some will also say that this results would be even better for Fuji if I had upsampled them all to 12Mp, but than some would start to argue that the upsampling methods on the pics was not the best and etc, etc, ... so as it is I think it gives an idea of how good Fuji SCCDs are.

Please disregard the compression artefacts they're induced by Fotopic the original file was 1.9Mb fotopic reduced it to 474Kb.
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 1:37 AM   #28
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For what I paid, and what I read in the reviews, my s602z has blown away the competition for bang for the buck, and I only recieved it 2 months ago. 315.00 dollars was steal a better deal for everything I got, and the Super CCD has not let me down. I've gotten a ton of great shots, that I know that another camera wouldn't even come close with the given shooting modes. A true digital slr will always out perform, but I don't have 1,000 dollars, or anything close to it.

I'm blessed to have read about this camera, and have my cousin tell me all about his s7000 the night before I wasted my money on a A95. Great point and shoot, with manual mode, but it can't touch my shooting modes or zoom on my Fuji s602z. =o)

That's all I have to say... there's different cameras for different folks, but it's like almost all the reviews said years ago : the s602z and s7000 line of camera produce some of the best all around shooters available.

One day I'll have to retire it, but not for a year or two... at least. =o)

-tlmiller10
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