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Old Apr 5, 2005, 8:48 PM   #11
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A case in point is my DVD player connected to the TV.
The manufacturer even includes directions to thier web site
as well as instructions on how to download and create an
"Update CD" which will put the latest firmware into the
DVD the next time you power it on...

As for other appliances that require updates, the issue
is that most of them are so simple none is needed. The ones
that are complex enough to connect to a computer probably
could use them, and already have a mechanism (or at least
the transport) to get them.

My issue is the company (Fuji) not caring enough about thier
customers to provide improvements, just looking at the next
way to trigger a purchase. They will never get any kind of
owner loyalty like that ! And if they don't think that is important,
they don't know the photography market at all...

After a 25 year hiatus from pro gear, one of my first criteria was
"should use Nikon lenses"
I had used them originally on an FTn, had wonderful service,
great manufacturer support, and great quality in the products
25 years ago. I still don't think I made a bad choice
on that, it just takes more research these days to pick
the "best ones" (they didn't have as many choices back then).
That was based on 6 years of use and building customer
loyalty from Nikon.

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Old Apr 5, 2005, 9:44 PM   #12
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LOL... You guys are trying to turn Fuji into another Microsoft. :-)

That's all we need!
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Old Apr 5, 2005, 11:19 PM   #13
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Sorry guys, I disagree with the premise that upgrades are desireable and should be frequent. I want a well designed and engineered piece of equipment that is as functional as it can be WHEN I BUY IT, not a dozen software upgrades down the road!! I researched the S7000 for many months before deciding to buy and I'm happy with my choice. Will something come along that the S7k could work with or do betterif it only had an upgrade? Very likely, but that was not something I even considered when purchasing because my decision was based on what was available AT THAT POINT IN TIME. I have a $3,000 (that's 1989 dollars!) Yamaha music synthesizer, there have been about three upgrades released for it in it's 15 year life, I did not bother with any of them until now asthey changed things so minor as to not be an issue. I did order the last set of upgrade chips last week (to the tune of $384 including shipping) because they are being phased out and will never be available again, and I plan on using this particular keyboard for a long time. And while I thought the cost was a bit high, I did not complain for months on end on every one of the synthesizer forums I belong to. I knew what the synth was when I bought it, just as I did with my S7000, I'm happy with my decisions and the products. Just my two cents worth.

Clyde
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Old Apr 6, 2005, 12:14 AM   #14
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Uhmm.. another microsoft? I hope not.
Frequent updates? I suppose once in a product life as opposed
to none is frequent. (on some planet)

Functioning as it can be WHEN you buy it...
we are in violent agreement there (which is why I got the S2 to start with)
BUT I also want a product that will get better before it
gets obsoleted.
One update to fix the know glitches...yep frequent updates are a must.

The complexity of todays software and the pressure to meet
the market deadline means that something somewhere is going
to be slightly out of whack. A patch release that fixes
the glitches and allows the camera to be more useful for
the next 5 years is not asking for much.

I've been doing software for 35 years, I've NEVER seen a
V1.0 product that was perfect. Fuji is always releasing a
version 1.0 product, each new generation is a revamp of the
software to "make it better", well that means that for every
bug they fix in an old feature they'll probably introduce
2 new ones in the revamped or replaced code. So even if they
do TOTAL code reuse.. it will have bugs. It's a fact!
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Old Apr 6, 2005, 2:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
I've been doing software for 35 years, I've NEVER seen a
V1.0 product that was perfect.
You've been writing software for 35 years and haven't gotten it right yet? Geez, I'd find another line of work. :blah: :-)

You expect too much for your dollar. Camera companies are in business to sell cameras. The flashes I've see from the other companies are FIXES to problems. Some serious some just quirks of the camera. You can't expect a company to issue updates for the life of a product. New products (cameras) come out every year and each better than the one before. It's the life of any product. If you want a better camera, step up to the teller. Want a better car? Start shoping dealers because the factory isn't going to send you new speakers because you don't like the sound of the radio.

I've only had my S5100 for about three weeks. I can't find a "problem" that demenishes it's $300 value. In fact, the more I use it the better it gets. I'm not a pro-photographer or make a living from my pictures but I can say without hesitation that the $300 was the best bargin I've ever seen in high quality pictures. It's laid-up my old Canon A1 gear.


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Old Apr 6, 2005, 2:30 AM   #16
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By the way "Watchin", That is one fine Merc in your avitar. 49? Did you build it?
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Old Apr 6, 2005, 3:37 AM   #17
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Houlala wrote:
Quote:
...".

Who will continue buying Fuji's stuff ? Not me.

...

Bye bye Fuji.
I am sorry you are unhappy with Fuji cameras .... Is it not cool that you can buy what ever other brand you wish at any time ?I am very happy with my Fuji S602 ... enough so that I bought a S7000. I do not know what will be next with Fuji as a replacement for the S7000, but I image it will be very sound.



Good luck in your search for a better camera

MikeC
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Old Apr 6, 2005, 4:26 AM   #18
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I never said I was unhappy with my S7000. It has many advantages compared to others at about the same price.

What I said/wrote is that if Fuji was willing to listen to their clients they would release some updates for their top seller cameras... improving or fixing what may be wrong (setting of sensitivity, for example). And I regret they don't :evil:

That's the only reason why I'll never buy another camera from them.

Now, let's consider that the many responses/advices to this topic clearly indicate that there is a "problem" with updates. Who is right ? Nobody knows.

To conclude, the S7000 is a good stuff which gives very good photos in most cases. But it could be way better... if Fuji wanted it to be. But, alas, they prefer selling their new models, leaving the ones with ancient models on the roadside. That's what I think. Only that.
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Old Apr 6, 2005, 7:47 PM   #19
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CCWKen wrote:
Quote:
You've been writing software for 35 years and haven't gotten it right yet? Geez, I'd find another line of work. :blah: :-)
Yeah I did I got (back) into photography :-)

Quote:
You expect too much for your dollar. Camera companies are in business to sell cameras. The flashes I've see from the other companies are FIXES to problems. Some serious some just quirks of the camera. You can't expect a company to issue updates for the life of a product.
At a dollar I'll buy as many camera versions as they produce...
at 2000 to 10,000 dollars, well now we are in a different ballpark.
I didn't say for the life of the product I said
ONCE DURING THE LIFE OF A PRODUCT. And yep I know they issue
the flash updates for FIXES... that is EXACTLY what I'd like from Fuji.

Quote:
New products (cameras) come out every year and each better than the one before. It's the life of any product. If you want a better camera, step up to the teller. Want a better car? Start shoping dealers because the factory isn't going to send you new speakers because you don't like the sound of the radio.
S1 to S2 = 2 years, S2 to S3 = almost 3 years
The life cycle of a good camera should be > 10 Years.
(I had a Minolta that was 20 years old when it died,
and I think that was from lonelyness)

If the lack of need for updates is true and appropriate, why all the nonsense
about Mickey$oft having buggy operating systems???

I'm also PI$$ed that car manufacturers do not stand behind thier products as well as they should.
So don't drag out that soapbox here ...

Quote:
I've only had my S5100 for about three weeks. I can't find a "problem" that demenishes it's $300 value. In fact, the more I use it the better it gets. I'm not a pro-photographer or make a living from my pictures but I can say without hesitation that the $300 was the best bargin I've ever seen in high quality pictures. It's laid-up my old Canon A1 gear.
Yep agreed for the most part, but when you do find that
problem that deminishes the value.. wouldn't you LIKE to know that there is a remedy possible?

The A1 was so simple in most aspects that you would have
KNOWN about a real problem when you
bought it because they are mainly mechanical.

If we didn't have excellent test reports from the likes of
Steve, we would be buying a pig in a polk. The new medium
(digital) requires the complexity, it also gives the wonderful
flexability and creative ability that was struggled for in
the hard film world.

One of the costs of that complexity is that the maker should
(must?) be flexable enough to make sure that the customer
(ME) gets every value for thier investment. Cameras at the
S2 and above level are an investment, not an expense.
even the IRS says so

Quote:
Not to go the "old fart" path but I was programming long before you were in dipers, I'm sure. It's a sad state when people accept poor quality and call it normal. It didn't used to be that way. The bottom line drives quality now days. The quality of work and the importance of testing has taken a turn for the worse.
WHO was in diapers??
Us OFs need to teach the NFSH (new fangled shaved heads)
about doing things with quality I guess....

ps - on the software issue, my team release a set of
software tools for documentation in 1986, did one
maintenance release in 1988 (cause we thought we should)
and the "product" was retired in 1996. I never got ONE
problem report or ECO request on it.
BUT we prototyped it and field tested it for a year before
releasing it at V2.3...


Okay - I've whomped the daylights outta this subject, and
(as an OF should) I'm starting to repeat myself... so
snuf said from me (unless someone gets me mad)..
somebody else take the next round...

Last thought - S2 is a really really good camera for what
it's intended, but it could be a great camera.
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Old Apr 6, 2005, 7:49 PM   #20
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CCWKen wrote:
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By the way "Watchin", That is one fine Merc in your avitar. 49? Did you build it?
Yep it is, 50, and nope (darn)
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